Vernon Brown: 0:00

Hey there, in today's episode, we're going to be talking about confidence. Where does it come from, how do you get more of it and how can it impact and influence your life and help you build the life of your dreams?

Desireè Brown: 0:11

Yeah, so it's something that I have struggled with, and maybe some of you have too, so let's talk about it and we invite you to pull up a chair and have a conversation with us at the Well.

Vernon Brown: 0:20

See you there. Hey there and welcome back to Conversations at the Well, we have our amazing host.

Desireè Brown: 0:26

I'm.

Vernon Brown: 0:26

Desiree Brown. I am man candy of the month, her arm piece. I try to make every picture with her look even better. My name is Vernon Brown.

Desireè Brown: 0:35

Yeah, he is pretty handsome, though I married him for his looks and his brain. I was about to say give me my credit now.

Vernon Brown: 0:41

Give me my credit. Anyways, today we're going to be talking about confidence, and confidence is something that I don't want to say. We're on the opposite sides of the spectrum of, but we kind of have had a different experience in how you get it, how you use it and how you protect it in a lot of different cases. Would you agree?

Desireè Brown: 0:57

I definitely would, because I think that for you and most of your situations, you present yourself quite confidently.

Vernon Brown: 1:05

I love the way you said that, because it's all about presentation. For me, there's a huge difference in what it looks like versus what's going on in my head. But continue, I cut you off.

Desireè Brown: 1:14

No, that's, that's what I wanted to say. So I think that you, you are, you have the I call it the gift of gap. You you are good at like showing up and like kind of being who you are needing to be on that particular platform. And I think for me, and probably a lot of people who watch maybe, or some people, at least some people who watch kind of like oh, like I don't know who I should be right now. I know, but but not not because we don't have the skills and not because we don't have what we need in order to do the assignment or whatever we are trying to do. But I don't know. Sometimes I think some of those self-doubt things roll around in the head, tell you that, oh, you're not prepared, or you're not this, you're not that, and it can show in the demeanor that you present in whatever platform you're on.

Vernon Brown: 2:04

So what I would propose, because I think there's a number of different things that are going we're going to talk about here today, and probably it's going to be more complicated because you're dealing with crazy me versus simple you, but I think there we need to talk about what you're required to be in the moment, right, what's happening in your head, to the authenticity of who you are in the moment and then also who you were created or born to be.

Vernon Brown: 2:28

And the reason why I have those three there is because I may present myself as super confident in a particular motive and we know that's different than what's going on in my head. But also that confident quote unquote person that has that persona is quite a ways different than who I've been created to be, and so I think part of our discussion, or part of the pursuit of what we're trying to do here, is recognize, yes, there's a gap between who you are in this moment and who you want to be. But how does that contrast or how does that compare to who you've been created to be? And should we spend more time getting from where we are to this fictitious person who we think we need to be? Or maybe we need to turn our alignment to where we were created to be? What do you think about that?

Desireè Brown: 3:14

I think that's a great approach, so I'm ready to get into it. So, um, I okay Expand on that a bit more.

Vernon Brown: 3:22

So, so let me, let me tell you how I came to that. Okay so so, for example, um, let's take an area of life. What area of life do you want to talk about? Area of my life, if you will.

Desireè Brown: 3:31

Your life. Yeah, um, let's talk about work.

Vernon Brown: 3:34

Okay, so work Um, actually that's a great one. So we'll talk about work and my day job.

Desireè Brown: 3:38

What do you mean? Actually, she only comes up with them every once in a while. She already used up her one good idea.

Vernon Brown: 3:48

But so in work, my job is to meet with customers and they have IT technical problems, and it's my job to look at everything that we can do and try to propose a solution to them. Now I've only been at this job for about a little over a year now, and it's a huge company. There's so much to learn, there's so much that I don't know, and so a lot of times I'm in front of customers telling them about products I understand, but then also, when it comes to the nuances and the details around it, some of those things may be fuzzy, and so in that instance I, in my mind, know exactly what I don't know and know what I do know. But I also know what the moment requires in order for me to provide and instill confidence in someone else that they want to spend a couple million dollars with my company, and so so, through that lens, it's about rising to the moment in that instance and how I do it personally, my confidence comes from one understanding I'm trying to figure out how to say this well, but my confidence comes from one understanding that in most cases, no one in the room knows more about what I'm talking about than me, and not to say that I'm better or smarter than anyone.

Vernon Brown: 4:57

Most of the time I'm in there by myself, so that's kind of by virtue. You're a customer. You don't really know what we can do, so no one can really contradict what I'm saying. I kind of know where I can get in trouble and I know where I can't. So I'm. You know, it doesn't take a lot to be confident when you believe and you know that no one else is going to contradict you, because no one else knows what you're talking about. But I do think that some people lose sight of that in those instances. So let's say, if you were hired to do a speech on a particular topic, if you are doing a speech to a group of people who had nothing or had no knowledge of what you were talking about, maybe you were talking about what we do here at the. Well, you may be, you may be nervous, but I would say, well, why are you nervous? No one can tell you that you're wrong about your business, right?

Desireè Brown: 5:41

That's true, oh you. Why would you be nervous? Your business, right? That's true. Oh you, why would you be nervous? Well, because I'm telling myself you know, you don't know that real well, and that's the voice inside of your head yeah on this side of the table.

Vernon Brown: 5:53

We have a very loud voice inside of your head. On this side of the table it's probably just as loud. Yeah, I'm like shut up, stupid, I don't need you right now, and I'm drowning out that voice with logic saying well, I know more about it than any of these other people. Now, where that gets interesting is what happens when I'm in a meeting with my boss. Then things get a little bit different and for me that voice gets louder, where I almost find myself taking a back seat and pretty much offering no feedback or no input, because I'm almost not subservient, but I'm almost, um, almost like, sub to her in that, in that instance, allowing her to take that approach. So I guess what I want you to gather or understand is that what you present doesn't mean what's quietly inside of your head doesn't exist. It just means that you figured out ways to silence or combat that voice within your own head yeah.

Desireè Brown: 6:43

So that's interesting because, um, I don't, I don't, well, I've been through um like talk therapy, right, so I've had a therapist in oh yeah in the past um, I don't know, that I thought you know. You've known that I haven't been like silent about it while we were married, or Some yeah Okay.

Vernon Brown: 7:06

I know about the people that work, but anyways, keep going.

Desireè Brown: 7:08

Yeah, like EAP, okay, gotcha Like that.

Vernon Brown: 7:11

But then I thought you meant like sitting on a chaise lounge somewhere.

Desireè Brown: 7:14

Oh no. I mean you might sit in their office Like if you're there in person or you just meet with them online. It wasn't. It was never a chase lounge, even when I saw before we were married, even when I would talk to a therapist before. But one of the things that's really that I worked a lot on and still I think it. I think it worked actually for the most part.

Desireè Brown: 7:36

It comes up here and there, but it was about self-talk and negative self-talk okay, so negative so self-talk period is just what you are telling yourself in your mind, so the you don't really know what you're talking about or they don't know what you're talking about.

Vernon Brown: 7:51

You're fine, like that's an example.

Desireè Brown: 7:53

Yes, yes, whatever that conversation is, that's happening in internally, what you're telling yourself about yourself, because that frames your beliefs. It frames your um thinking about, whatever situation you're in. Right.

Vernon Brown: 8:08

So what I think I hear you saying because we often hear I don't say church people, but church people talk about your words have power you. Life and death is in your, is in the power of your tongue. But if you're a person who doesn't subscribe to that, even outside of religion and whatever your beliefs are, self-talk is still a thing is what I hear you saying, yeah, it's kind of like um, what is it that people say something about manifesting?

Desireè Brown: 8:30

or like, um, what's the other thing?

Desireè Brown: 8:33

like what you put out oh, yeah, like the karma or like law of attraction kind of thing, and so it's like what you're, what's happening, um, inside, or what you're putting out, even verbally, impacts your, it frames your experience, which I think it to be true, right. So, like, if I'm about to go into a presentation and I'm like I'm so nervous, uh, you know like, did I practice enough? Do I remember? Oh, my gosh, I'm going through everything and you get so much in your head you almost can um, that over prepared or that extra nervousness and that that lack of confidence, or you're gonna mess up like you gotta remember this, or else you're gonna just like mess up. That kind of thing almost is like self-fulfilling because you're focused on it so much that it's like all right, it's gonna happen. And it's almost like you're focused on it so much that it's like all right, it's going to happen.

Vernon Brown: 9:24

And it's almost like you're training yourself how you want it to respond Right, like, if you're I don't know if you're if you're weightlifting or something, you're lifting something heavy and you just keep pushing through it and pushing through it, you're training your body that, hey, you need to get prepared to lift this kind of weight. However, if you lift it and you're like this is too heavy, put it down, your body's like oh, I have no need for that. So, to go to your example, if you're about to go and do a speech and you're like, oh, my goodness, I'm going to forget about this and what about this? And what about that, you're almost premeditating and training your body that, when this happens, freak out.

Vernon Brown: 9:55

Yeah, it does happen, you freak out.

Desireè Brown: 9:58

Right as opposed to OK, like I'm going into this, I'm going to do the best I can. If I stumble, I'll just get back on track Like that's a, that's a more realistic perspective that will help you more than like, oh my gosh, I don't want to mess up. I don't want to mess up because the moment you mess up because inevitably, just because we're human, things don't always go perfect, so if you mess up, then you're just like completely, you're completely thrown off course because you're like you were so afraid of that moment and now that has happened, you're responding to it in the way with all the anxiety and all the uh, the angst, with I guess it's the same thing as anxiety with all the I'll just say anxiety, with all the anxiety that you had ahead of time. It's now showing up right there in the middle of your presentation.

Vernon Brown: 10:45

Now listen to this and I want to keep us on a track so it's easy for people to understand. But I don't feel like this is going to be that because there's so much good stuff in here, Because when we talk about like the line down the middle of the table and how we address things differently, you go into a speech and you're like I don't want to mess up, or if I do mess up, this is what I can do to overcome it.

Vernon Brown: 11:08

Whereas when I'm preparing for a speech, it's how, and it's like a speech without notes or something like that it's. I need to practice this. So there's so many different ways and so many different tracks that there is no mess up. I'm just hopping from one track or one train of thought to the other and I think that's really freeing for me, because there is no. Oh, my goodness, I messed up, the train derailed. It's oh that that path was over there anyway, and so.

Vernon Brown: 11:32

I almost think of a speech as a branch, like tree branches, where I start at the trunk and I'm going up and, based upon my train of thought, what I see in the audience and where my mind just goes, I want to have so many different branches to where, even if I say something wrong or not in alignment with where I want it to go, I've already been down that branch before, so I know how to get to where I want to go.

Desireè Brown: 11:54

That sounds exhausting to me. You think so, yeah, so, cause our brains are different, right? So you're definitely more methodical and strategic in your approach to things. I am not okay, so I to even give that level of thought, like it takes an enormous thought process just to prepare this speech, let alone to come up all these contingencies, see to me that's like that's letting all the pressure off, because now I don't have to remember it word by word, which I'm never going to do no for me, I guess, and and I I do want to say this I've gotten a lot better, I think.

Desireè Brown: 12:29

I think maybe that was my um mindset at one point in time, like, oh my gosh, I don't want to mess up, I don't want to mess up. But now I'm like I'm just gonna show up yeah because I've.

Desireè Brown: 12:38

I have developed a level of confidence in just like who I am, where if I show up as myself and like I'm, I'm a little quirky anyway. So like it's gonna be a little quirky, it might not, it's not gonna go perfect, because I'm just I'm, I'm not perfect and I've accepted that. So that has been freeing for me to just show up. And also one thing I did in um the speech training, which was amazing. It was so good Shout out to Speakeasy I don't know if I could say that there's no endorsement here, but they were so good.

Desireè Brown: 13:11

But that training was so, I think, life changing for me in a way, because it focused less on the what is being said and more of who and what message you're, who you are and what message are you trying to convey and who you are in that moment. So, like, what hat are you wearing right now and in accordance to the audience that you're presenting in front of? So, for example, if you're going to be um, if your audience is customers and you are doing a presentation and trying to sell a million dollar deal or something right, then you come in and you may show up as I don't know, maybe help me out. Like like who would you say? Like I'm the, I'm a boss or I am.

Vernon Brown: 13:59

It's like that persona you put on.

Desireè Brown: 14:00

Or CEO, or like you just come off as you put on that that attire, if you will just like that frame of mind, like I am the boss of this and I know my stuff, like I am the sales top sales rep of not just a year but a century and so you can put on that hat. Or if you are, um, maybe if you're a teacher and your students may not be getting it, maybe you're less of a teacher at that particular point, maybe you're more of a coach, like you're encouraging them. So you have to figure out, kind of what message you're trying to convey, what your audience needs, what message you want them to receive, and put that hat on. And that for me, has been freeing, because I get that, I understand that.

Vernon Brown: 14:49

But I think, even above and beyond that, what you said was super powerful. You kind of blazed over it. It's the fact that you're enough.

Desireè Brown: 14:57

Yeah.

Vernon Brown: 14:58

Like. I think that's a statement in and of itself.

Vernon Brown: 15:00

You're enough Like whether you're at work, whether you're at home, whether you're, you know, showing up anywhere, you and who you are in your current state, as far away from your goals as you are, as much development and training as you think you need you in this moment, are enough for that moment. That doesn't mean that you don't prepare, but confidence starts with recognizing who you've been created to be. Who you are, who life has transformed you into, is enough for you to be in this moment, in this opportunity, and the more quickly that you recognize and embody that is, the better off you'll be in implementing everything else that we're talking about here, yeah, and I think so.

Desireè Brown: 15:40

I think I've. I won't say I've mastered, but I think I have improved significantly in that area. So I don't mind presenting in front of people. In fact I enjoy it. I think the areas where I struggle more are in yeah, I think, living up to who people think I am, maybe that and perhaps just also being able to speak of my accomplishments Like I I do. I was telling my women's group the other day. I was like I have been. I know I need to write up this award for my job and I have a really hard time, like tooting my own horn. I am very uncomfortable in that. Not to say the work I do is not, I guess, a word worthy, but it's just like. That just feels weird, and so I am. I realized like I am really uncomfortable, really not confident in sharing my accomplishments because I think it can come off as um, like bragging or being like showy. Um, I remember this word ostentatious. I like that word a lot.

Vernon Brown: 16:51

It means showy.

Desireè Brown: 16:53

I like that word. We learned it. It was like an SAT word back in high school, but, um, I really liked that word. It just sounds so smart. Um, I'm gonna be throwing it in a random podcast now. So we're austin.

Vernon Brown: 17:05

Austin how we're doing these things yeah, it's a very ostentatious thing to say there, yeah, but but it comes off.

Desireè Brown: 17:13

I think it can come off that way as and I don't, in a weird way, I don't ever want to think too highly of myself.

Vernon Brown: 17:22

I want to stay humble.

Desireè Brown: 17:23

I want to stay, yeah, humble, and I don't want to be prideful, but at the same time, sometimes you gotta, at least in my job, you gotta yeah, get recognized yeah, so you got any tips for me on how to to show.

Vernon Brown: 17:42

Now, I'm horrible. Actually, that's an interesting thing. I'm horrible at receiving any type of praise, but I don't think I have an issue with commanding it or asking for it. What do you think about that? Is that a truthful statement? I know the first part is truthful about me not receiving any type of award or anything like that. Well, but when it comes time, if I had to write up an award, I could write a darn good award about myself, I think why is it?

Desireè Brown: 18:10

why are those different?

Vernon Brown: 18:13

um, I I think, when it comes to receiving the words of others, it it requires me to take a moment and, I guess, receive what people are saying, and I don't do that. Well, I don't know why you give it out. Well, yeah, well yeah, but I don't receive it. I don't even say well, I just say don't I, if you, if you say something positive to me, I'll probably just ignore you and change the subject, or something.

Desireè Brown: 18:42

I don't know that's really interesting Okay.

Vernon Brown: 18:44

I don't think I've ever been good at receiving Like I want it, Like. I certainly want to be acknowledged for my work. But if someone said, hey, you did a really good job or I really appreciate you, I'll be like oh so how are the kids?

Desireè Brown: 18:59

Is the sky still blue?

Vernon Brown: 19:00

The weather? Is it warm? Yeah, why. Why do you think that is?

Desireè Brown: 19:05

um well, I don't know why it is, but it is I, I can, I can definitely agree with you on that. Um yeah, I don't know, I don't know why, which it seems strange because you certainly do a lot of incredible work that I do think is worth recognition and, like you've excelled in a lot of your you've excelled in your work, you've excelled in a lot of areas of your life and I have no idea why.

Vernon Brown: 19:42

Maybe because it causes you to reflect, or maybe I was thinking like, maybe because it requires me to feel something and I can't really control that. I can control me speaking into someone else's life and perhaps how it makes them feel in some way, but I can't control how receiving that makes me feel.

Desireè Brown: 20:00

Oh, that's interesting and I don't like that vulnerability. I think, oh, that is very interesting, it makes a lot of sense.

Vernon Brown: 20:06

I'm not crazy.

Desireè Brown: 20:07

No, you're not crazy but you're just, you're, yeah, your uncomfortability with, like the feels yeah it's always so interesting to me and I feel a lot, so we're like the opposite um, but yeah, and and in the um, I guess the opposite way, like I, can receive compliments and recognition. It does kind of make me uncomfortable, though, because I don't, I guess I don't like being the center of attention and here we are on a podcast, but but you know, it's, this is.

Vernon Brown: 20:43

I told y'all in the beginning, this was uncomfortable for me, you're definitely the center of attention, cause everybody already knows I'm crazy.

Desireè Brown: 20:51

But how is she though? It was God's master plan and I'm grateful. Um, so, yeah, that's, that, that's, I don't know. Know, I got an award recently and I was like, oh wow, they thought of me and as they were reading, I was like it did cause reflection. It was like, oh wow, I have done a lot. Hmm, I and I was. It was interesting to hear it all said in like one at one time versus kind of just throwing little pieces out there and then I was like, oh, no wonder I'm just feel so crazy in my head.

Desireè Brown: 21:26

I'm over here, over here, over here, over here, because I was literally doing all of these different things simultaneously at different points, um, and it made me realize, oh, that's the reason why I feel that way. Maybe I need to cut back on some things, okay, but anyway, um, yeah, that was. It was weird because it was like in front of like a pretty decent sized audience and I was like, oh my gosh, I had spotlights on me, um, but I tried to be gracious and smile so there's probably someone out here who's doing something new, yeah the first time and they may feel feelings.

Vernon Brown: 22:05

They may feel feelings of inadequacy and may feel feelings of discomfort. What tips or how could we help an individual find their confidence in that moment?

Desireè Brown: 22:17

Yeah, confidence in that moment, yeah, um, so give me one, one thing is that you are enough?

Vernon Brown: 22:30

you said that, yeah, but it was good yeah you're, you are enough.

Desireè Brown: 22:33

Um, what does she say? One of my favorite uh people I follow on social media she's like you, you are enough as you are without change. You're enough as you are without change. Yeah, and when she said that I saw her live and I was like whoa, that's like kind of a game changer, because I I'm always like, oh, if I could just be a little bit like this or I can be a little less like this, then I feel like I'm enough. Actually, nobody ever will feel exactly like they're enough, but in fact you're enough.

Vernon Brown: 23:11

Yeah, I think that's awesome, because how many times do we hear or feel or receive that you're good enough, but with contingencies or with modifications or with qualifications? You were enough, but with contingencies or with modifications or with qualifications, you're great. But you can work on like what would happen if you just said no, I'm going to be me because I'm enough. And I think that's number one to get that inside of yourself. Even if you have to fake it until you make it. You have to wake up every morning and tell yourself you're enough, believe that you are enough.

Desireè Brown: 23:42

That awesome, yeah, makes mine sound kind of shallow well I feel like I need to give credit to the person who said it. Who said it? Her name is melissa frederick. She's mrs kev on stage. Oh, you know kev on stage yeah, I should have said that, um, I've met melissa once. She will probably never remember me, but she's amazing. I love her. Watching her and seeing her do her thing and her and her husband, how they have what they're doing on social media is pretty cool. So, anyway, that's number one. That's number one.

Desireè Brown: 24:12

You have you are enough. Do you have a tip that outside of that one, I would say?

Vernon Brown: 24:17

my recommendation would be to recognize that, let. I would say, my recommendation would be to recognize that, let me. Let me change that. What I was going to say is that you are the voice of reason in the room that you're in.

Desireè Brown: 24:29

But in some instances you may not be. Yeah.

Vernon Brown: 24:33

So so I think that's a thing too. But the second thing for confidence is understanding where you are in your confidence meter or scale, in this moment. And so what I mean by that is will we, as we're preparing for something, planning for something, doing a job, whatever it is? There are ebbs and flows in our confidence, and I think we have to recognize where we are in that and govern ourselves accordingly.

Vernon Brown: 24:58

If we're, a lot of times, I think, in error, we find ourselves in our most vulnerable state, and so we go talk to people who we probably have the least amount of faith in, and then we take our little candle of hope and dreams and everything and bring it in front of them, and we know mama never really supported us in anything. But we tell mama about our dreams and mama blows your little candle out. And so I think, understanding where you are and then recognizing who you can share those things with, or maybe you don't share them with anyone, maybe you just have to talk yourself up, because maybe you really don't belong in that room, maybe you're not enough, maybe those things are true in the instance or the opportunity that got dropped into your lap, and maybe in this moment I just have to tell myself that I'm good enough, even if it's not true, even if no one else believes it. I got to tell myself this and I'm going to protect this until I get to a point where I'm strong enough to stand on my own.

Desireè Brown: 25:48

Yeah, and I would say, maybe this is the third one the authenticity is is everything, and I think because, like, if you are chosen to stand in front of people of high rank and stature, you know that. You know, maybe perhaps you've been given an opportunity to have an audience of people who maybe you've been have had a chance to have an audience of people that are. You know they're up there and you're feeling like I am, I I'm just not prepared for this. The thing is, you were invited into the room for a reason.

Desireè Brown: 26:30

Yeah, yeah, you have a purpose, you have a role, you have a purpose, you have a role, there is a some something about you, a story about you and a situation that you've been through, some information that you have that's important for the room to know about, and even if you have practice and practice and practice, and you get there and your notes are just like I can't. I can't even see, because I'm so nervous our son's in the room, guys, even if you get to the place where you're so nervous that you can't even everything's blurring, if you just speak from your heart and be truly authentic in that, I think the message will still convey, even if it comes out a little bit differently than you planned it to. And so I think authenticity is it can take you further than even just like putting on a show no, I love that.

Vernon Brown: 27:22

I think that makes a lot of sense to take that approach. You got a fourth one, or just a three um, that's my third, one wait no, it's my, it's my turn. That was my. Yeah, you were number four number four. Um, I think I would go with what you said about your self-talk.

Desireè Brown: 27:39

Okay.

Vernon Brown: 27:40

Encouraging yourself continually until you believe who you're encouraging yourself to be.

Desireè Brown: 27:47

Fake it till, you make it.

Vernon Brown: 27:49

It sounds much better.

Desireè Brown: 27:51

That's a lot of words to say Fake it till you make it, but encourage yourself, yeah, so be authentic but then be fake.

Vernon Brown: 27:57

I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

Vernon Brown: 27:59

It's like, hey, you know, negative words come up and no, I can do this or no, I will be prepared to do this. Even if you can't bring yourself to authentically say I'm that guy, I will be that guy, I'm working towards being that guy and until I'm that guy, then I'm going to still keep showing up to become that person. And I think that's a huge part of just because you feel unsure, just because you feel like you may not deserve to be in the room, just because you feel like someone else may be better equipped, doesn't mean that there's not a place for you in that room. And I think, while you find yourself in that room, continuing to encourage yourself to say no, no, no, I'm supposed to be here, even when people may say and speak against you, no, no, no, I'm supposed to be here, and truly believing that enough to say it with confidence and say it until you believe it, I think we'll be able to power you to where you want to go.

Desireè Brown: 28:53

Yeah, you know, I think that that's a, I think that's a great point and I get it. It's just aligning with who you're becoming. So help you, even if you're not quite there yet, your actions now can begin to align with who you're becoming. Who you want to become and I think you know this, the, the, maybe the fifth thing, and probably should have been the first thing is and it probably should have been the first thing is remember who God sees you as, because in, throughout, throughout the Bible, god used a whole lot of people who would have been considered the least like no, that person. Why that person? You know?

Vernon Brown: 29:35

I'm the chief sinner.

Desireè Brown: 29:37

Yeah, I'm thinking particularly about Moses, this guy, you know, he was out there, he was well educated and all that good stuff, but he had a stuttering problem. He had a really crazy past and God chose him to do a particular thing for him. And Moses himself was like, are you sure? You know, like me, I stutter when I speak and you want me to go stand before the pharaoh, the king? Okay, are you sure? Like so, um, and even in that god got so frustrated with him that he was just. He ended up sending him anyway, but he sent him with his brother to be the speaker, and moses would be more like the okay, I need to go say this. And then his brother, aaron, would go and say the thing.

Desireè Brown: 30:23

But God, when he puts us in these situations, I think he doesn't put us in the situations because we're unprepared, or maybe because we're unprepared because that gives him a chance to show like himself through us, himself, through us. So I think, really thinking of who God sees you as, which is usable and valuable, and his child and, um, someone that he can do things through, if you can trust in him enough to fill in the gaps where you lack, then there's really nothing that can stop you. And I just need to remind myself of that and I think that's how I've been able to do so many things, because me on my own, I don't know, not the best candidate. But God is like, no, I can use you. And I just like, okay, god, you can use me, go for it. And then I surprised myself sometimes and I'm like, oh, clearly that wasn't me, it was God.

Vernon Brown: 31:20

Surprise myself sometimes and I'm like, oh, clearly that wasn't me, it was God. So I want you to think about a few situations that you can recall where your confidence was either grown or your confidence was developed, which I guess is the same thing. And in the meantime, while you're thinking about that, I'll give two examples from my life that I think were really pivotal in me growing both real confidence and visual confidence, if you will. And so we'll start with visual confidence. Public speaking has become a very big part of my life, whether it's podcasts, whether it's recording videos, whether it's at the church and in speaking there like it's become a really big part of of what I do. And I think one misconception that people have is that if you are a public speaker and you are decent at it, they believe that you don't get nervous when you go up there.

Vernon Brown: 32:09

And what I was taught from a really young age is that you don't necessarily stop getting nervous, but you train yourself for so that your nervousness shows up perhaps in a less conspicuous way. And so, growing up as a kid, we would have science fairs and speeches and things you know. You read off scriptures in front of the church and stuff like that, and my mother would always prepare with me and we would practice in the kitchen and I would. She would have me stand there and do whatever speech I would do, and she would actually watch for nervous tendencies swaying or, you know, stuttering or putting your hands in your pocket or shifting your weight back and forth, and every time I did that she would say stop and start over.

Vernon Brown: 32:48

And what that created in me was, as I got older, my nervous tendencies were a lot less visible and a lot less normal, if that makes sense. So, if you know me, usually if I start speaking or I'm in the very beginning part of a speech or whatever, I am blazing and moving super fast, because that's what I have turned into my nervous tendency, so much so that I have to remember every time I speak quiet my heart, quiet my thoughts, slow down my pace, because that's my giveaway. But rocking back and forth and hands and saying um a lot, those have pretty much been worked out of my vocabulary, at least as it pertains to speaking when I believe that or when I want to be in front of someone unnervous while you are still nervous acknowledging I'm nervous, but deciding how that nervousness is going to show up, I think it's going a really long way and creating a more polished way of speaking.

Vernon Brown: 33:49

And the second one I want to come up with, or the second one I want to bring to people's attention, is in technology, you have these certifications where it's like some tests that you take, in which both the thing I love about the certification test is it's not different based upon your background or who you are the test is the test Can you pass it? 90 or I think, three hours, 90 minutes or 90 questions, and you just have to go through and can you pass it or can you fail it. And so I took this test and it was, I think, my second or third certification and it was this one was required for my internship I had at the time. I go in, I take the, take the test and I miss it by like five or 10 points. And I come outside and my dad's there with me. He's like so you failed it. I was like, yeah, he's like, so what you going to do?

Vernon Brown: 34:34

And it never crossed my mind that I had options in that moment and I was like what do you mean? What am I? He was like you're going to take it again now. Are you going to wait a while to take it again? Like, what are you going to do? And I said, well, I guess I should. I should take it again. He said you got some money.

Vernon Brown: 34:48

And I was like I think a lot of times, when it comes to our confidence, we're looking for opportunities, we're looking for people to believe in us in an area where we haven't done the work to believe in ourselves. And that doesn't necessarily have to mean that you're prepared or you have all these degrees. That just means that you look yourself in the mirror and you say I am enough. And building yourself up to that moment will get you to the point where I was like, ok, I'm going to pay for the test, take my little last two hundred dollars and go retake it again. And I passed it. But it all hinged upon the fact that how, in a lot of ways, how dare I ask someone for something that I'm not willing to give myself? That's a crazy idea when you think about it. So those are my two. What did you come up with?

Desireè Brown: 35:43

Oh, okay, you weren't even thinking were you. I was really trying to listen. I was like he told me to think, but I'm like trying to be present and listen to what he has to say.

Vernon Brown: 35:50

You don't think about your next question.

Desireè Brown: 35:52

No, I will actually probably more times than not, but I really try to be present in these conversations, but one of the, if I have to choose something, probably more recently, about a year ago, I got a new position at my job and of course, there's an interview that comes with getting a job and, oh my gosh, I was nervous. Of course it's an interview, but one of the things that helped me significantly was reviewing my resume. So I went back. You know, I went back and I read my resume, mainly because I knew they were going to ask me so tell me a time about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Vernon Brown: 36:33

And I was like okay, this is a resume, this is what is it? Cv. Cv Like where it's super, super long.

Desireè Brown: 36:39

Oh, mine's crazy long, but um. But it reminded me what humble brag well, it's just long.

Desireè Brown: 36:47

Anyway, there's a whole other story I got years in this I mean seriously, I've been in the workforce for well close to 15 years now, so I should have something on there, not 52, not quite, not quite, um, anyway. So, yes, reviewing my resume, cv, whatever you want to call it, but just like, what have I done? And I've spent a great deal of time and trying to put together like the language for it, and I was like reading through, I was like doggone it. There you go, girl, you better do something, you better have some history here.

Desireè Brown: 37:23

So but anyway, that did help me to prepare and that helped me to think of the scenarios that because I mean interview stand interview questions are typically pretty standard. You know what they're going to ask you, but best and worst quality, tell me your best and worst quality. Tell me a situation where you were faced with a challenge and how you overcame it. And I was like, okay, you know. So I think just kind of like looking at your record. So sometimes it requires some reflection. So, whether it's your CV or resume, or just like taking some time to think about, like what you have done to help you recall the fact that you have been able to face challenges, you have been able to overcome situations where you were like I have no idea how this is going to work out, but you're on the opposite end of that. So the reflection was really key for me to help me to remember what I've done and the qualities that I have within me and why I would make an outstanding employee and I'm most qualified for this position.

Vernon Brown: 38:26

And for some people who are maybe going into a new area or a new situation where they feel like maybe their experience isn't all that applicable. Yeah, I think it just takes a step deeper to look to say, okay, maybe I'm not doing exactly what I was doing, but I bet you I can be a really kind person. I bet you I can be a different skill set, but had a lot of my skills were transferable.

Desireè Brown: 39:03

But I had to get a little creative about it, like maybe I haven't done this particular thing in this particular way, but I have a way that I've applied. I can apply some of the other things I've done to this situation which would make me qualified for this job. And I mean it was, it was so, so cool. First of all, one of the people on the interview panel was like I saw you, you did a training for me like a few weeks ago. I was in your class and I was like well, that was mind blowing and I think that was just kind of God's way to be like hey, you're, you're good, you you know, what you're saying.

Desireè Brown: 39:44

Y'all heard about me. I had no idea, but the streets were talking and it worked in my favor. So, and that's another thing like also putting your best foot forward in these different situations, because you don't know how they're going to turn out. And, um, that has happened a few times where somebody saw you over here but then you get remembered for a situation maybe it's a position or maybe just an opportunity over here because of how well you did there. So it's just like kind of carrying excellence with you, um. So I think, well, that's one. I I am really struggling to figure out another.

Vernon Brown: 40:19

Um, I think the podcast, like how did you get from to?

Desireè Brown: 40:24

I'm gonna do it well, you reminded me that I'm enough. Yeah, you were like, babe, stop overthinking this. Yeah, you can pat yourself on the back, stop overthinking this. You can talk, we can talk, it's just us, we're having a conversation. I was like, oh okay, I can talk to you, I talk, it's just us, we're having a conversation. I was like, oh okay, I can talk to you, I like talking to you, yeah. So when I saw it as that, I felt a lot less pressure on myself to just like do it in some other way that I had built up in my head. I was like, oh, it's a conversation.

Vernon Brown: 40:57

So sometimes just simplifying it and removing the pressure we put on ourselves and seeing it for what it actually really is can put all things into perspective and sometimes make you feel more equipped for it.

Desireè Brown: 41:08

Absolutely high ranking people or think people you think are high ranking or smarter than you or whatever. Whatever you think is happening, just remembering that they're people too and even on in the basic levels, connection is key. At least for me, connection is key. And so if I'm talking to whether I'm talking to my children or I'm talking to the president of the United States of America, like people and it's about connection. So maybe that's um another thing. I think I mentioned that with authenticity it's about connecting.

Vernon Brown: 41:53

Yeah, cause, that'll be one. You definitely cause. I'm not good at that.

Desireè Brown: 41:55

I lean on that heavily because I found that that's my superpower, that's the thing that helps me to. I'm most confident in that because I think I do that well.

Vernon Brown: 42:05

Well, thank you so much for joining us here for Conversations at the Well my name is Vernon Brown and I'm Desiree Brown and, above all things that we talked about here today, no matter what it is that you are trying to build up the confidence to do, to achieve, to run after we hope that you will go forward and do it with confidence. We would like to go on this journey with you, so let us know if there's something that you're pursuing, something that you're going after, something that you're striving for. We would love to hear about how you're working through this path of confidence.

Desireè Brown: 42:34

Like comment, subscribe. We love to hear from you. Just like we're hearing from our children right now to hear from you, just like we're hearing from our children right now.

Vernon Brown: 42:43

We'll see you next week. We can go handle this. We'll see y'all next time for conversations at the well. Have a great time. Bye.