Desiree Brown: 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome back to Conversations at the Well. We are so excited because we have our first guest. Yay, this is Vernon's mom. We will introduce her more in our episode, but join us as we talk about crossroads, how to make the decision of what stays and what goes when you're making these big decisions in life. So grab a chair and join us in life.

Vernon Brown: 0:23

So grab a chair and join us. Hey there, before we get into this episode, I want to remind you to like comment and get subscribed if you're joining in with us on YouTube.

Vernon Brown: 0:33

We would love to have this conversation be a two-way conversation, not just us talking, because you may never make it into one of these chairs, but we certainly still want to have a conversation with you. So like, comment, subscribe and we'll see you in the rest of the episode. Welcome back, welcome back to Conversations at the. Well, I am so excited today. I don't know about you, but we have our first, first guest and I happen to know her for a long, long time. Yeah, she goes by a lot of names Lady E to some. We have Coach E to others, but would you like?

Eyvette Allen: 1:02

to introduce yourself. Yes, yes. Well, my name is Yvette Allen and this creation of me is my son, that's my baby, son, you made it sound like you weren't sure if it was a good thing or a bad thing and we had her introduce herself, because we can't say Yvette is just disrespectful, so this is mom, she's mom today, for y'all could call her mom and uh, is that okay?

Desiree Brown: 1:33

I just said that. Okay, anyway, so were you gonna continue?

Eyvette Allen: 1:39

I'm sorry no, I just jumped in okay he said his part, okay.

Desiree Brown: 1:42

So on this episode as we talked about, this is about crossroads, this is about and and really this is personal to me because I find myself at a crossroads right now where I'm it's kind of we're getting to the end of the year, um, and it's a time of reflection and um, sometimes, when y'all know how you have these things at work, where you have your annual review or whatever, trying to get that bonus trying to y'all get bonuses.

Desiree Brown: 2:08

Anyway, we don't get bonuses, we get the pay. You came in, you, you get the pay that you get.

Desiree Brown: 2:15

You get what you get correct, but, um, I'm grateful for it. Thank you to my employer. Um, so, in any case, in doing that reflection and kind of thinking about my career, I'm like, oh my gosh. Y'all know I've been trying to rid myself of some things that I don't necessarily need anymore, but I'm also having trouble deciding what should stay and what should go, and so I find myself at this crossroads professionally. But this is also something that can happen personally in your life.

Vernon Brown: 2:44

Let me be the first to say your job should stay.

Desiree Brown: 2:47

Oh, absolutely.

Vernon Brown: 2:47

Let's get that out there, absolutely.

Desiree Brown: 2:50

There was no question of that, so it wasn't the main thing. But it's really like some of the extra things that I do that aren't necessary. Some of them I enjoy doing, some of them I don't enjoy doing even. And then there's some things that I enjoy but they other than enjoyment, they don't serve any purpose. And then there's some things I don't enjoy, but they are far, they have more impact, if I can say that which applies to your job, but also as we go through life.

Vernon Brown: 3:18

it seems like the same things are always around, absolutely things that we feel like we have to do, things that we kind of put on ourselves as our own responsibility, and those things that we just fill our calendars and clocks with that aren't needed at all, but we're still doing them.

Desiree Brown: 3:30

Yes. So we decided to bring some more wisdom to the table, because she has life experience that can help inform us for and for me, because it's about it's about me today.

Vernon Brown: 3:43

Go, take a whole episode to yourself.

Desiree Brown: 3:45

This is about anyone else who is listening, who is kind of finding themselves in a similar situation. And so, mom, I wanted to bring you into the conversation and wanted to kind of get your well first of all. I'm sure you have, this is going to be a redundant, not a redundant, but I want you to just expand on this question just to kind of give us some insight into your life when you've had to make some of these types of decisions. But when have you been at a crossroads and what were you trying to decide between?

Eyvette Allen: 4:17

Okay, so, as the two of you know and for the audience. So, as the two of you know and for the audience, I am was a widow, and so life did transition at one point or another. Stop, I know, I got to get my joke on, so you wasn't with us.

Vernon Brown: 4:39

He brought him back. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I knew this is where this is going.

Eyvette Allen: 4:46

I'm sorry, it's okay, it's my dad, so it's okay, it's going to be one of those conversations I had to. You threw it slow and over the plate, actually. Yeah, actually, you brought up a good point, because I do recall when, during my first marriage, he had found himself where his job had closed down and so he kept sending out, I mean application after application, after application, and nothing was happening. And so I sat there and I'm like do you think that, at this time, is the time to start looking, maybe expanding your search? Because I do believe that, um, in everything, god has a plan.

Vernon Brown: 5:32

So so, so wait. So there was a point in which job had closed down and he's looking for another job and naturally you kind of look in the city that you're in, but over some period of time nothing was happening, absolutely. Oh, so that's like a real, real crossroad. Yeah, we over here talking about fun job projects.

Desiree Brown: 5:53

Yeah, should I still do this or should I not? Or should we move across the country? Right?

Vernon Brown: 5:58

Okay.

Eyvette Allen: 5:59

And as now that I've gone through it and I had a chance to look at it, my question to him was well, have you expanded your search? And he's like, well, no, and I'm like, well, why don't you expand your search? So he did because he was desperate, but I truly believe that it was indeed God that was positioning him for that, because at the same time, you were getting ready to leave for college, and in the midst of you getting ready to leave for college, because you had entered school so early, you were only 16. And you know our African American young men, it is very hard to get them through college.

Eyvette Allen: 6:44

At that time, the biggest statistic that was staying in my mind is it's more likely for you to end up in jail than to complete college. And I said the devil is alive. So as he expanded his search, he did end up finding something in North Carolina and, as you know now, that's where you went to school. So we were able to move as a family to North Carolina. He got the job. You had, the you know, kind of close watching that you needed to get you through school, and so I do believe it was more of a plan of God, even though I said is you know I'm at a crossroads, but I think it was a God-led crossroad that's a really great example.

Desiree Brown: 7:33

Yeah, um, so, so, because it's such a that was such a big thing. Um, no, well, I guess, what were you all you talked about? Some of the factors you talked about? Uh, the job search you talked about. You had a child still in the home that was about to go to college. Were there any other factors that you were considering? Um, because, just for background, they are from dover, delaware. Yes, yes, there are people from dover, delaware. They are from Dover, delaware. Yes, yes, there are people from Dover Delaware.

Desiree Brown: 8:06

They are here the great state, the first state, the first state of Dover, we'll go with first. Yes, because that can't be argued. Yes, neither can. Great, okay, so, but um, so, in any way, your family is there. You know, were you working there at that?

Eyvette Allen: 8:27

time I was and that's another part of it, because for me, when it comes to making decisions about I'm in a crossroad, I look at the things that have to stay now, because of course at that point we were a one income family. Now, because of course at that point we were a one income family, I had to work. So, even though it was you know, it sounds like it just kind of laid out nicely and it did there was a period where, after he went, vernon, who was finishing up school at the time, and me working at the time, we were still located in North Carolina. So the factors kind of led us to where we needed to be.

Eyvette Allen: 9:13

If you ever find yourself at a crossroad, just look at the things that cannot change. We had to have income coming in to pay the bills, so I had to work. So at that point we knew I had to stay there. He was still in school, he had to finish school, so he had to stay here. My husband got a job, so he had to go. So it wasn't like, oh, let me, you know, decide this, this, this.

Vernon Brown: 9:48

It was really all of the factors that had to be in that same place. I forgot about that.

Eyvette Allen: 9:52

That period you wanted to, you were entering into college.

Vernon Brown: 9:53

So, yeah, I'm sure you wanted to forget it, but yeah, but I think the the cool principle out of that that's applicable both in huge situations and even your situation is the first step of a crossroads. When you recognize that you're there is find all the stuff that can't move, like it's almost if you're walking into a room with no lights on, like where are?

Vernon Brown: 10:12

the walls, like how can I steady myself? Yeah, find those things that have to stay in place. And I think even that exercise takes a little bit more wisdom than a lot of us have. Right, because we look at, look at some things and say I have to do this, and it's like ain't nobody tell you to do that, nobody's making you do those things. So it takes a really sober view to say what really can't move in my life and then from there, from that anchor, from that bedrock or foundation, then you can start making your other decisions. But so often, even when we try to do that very simple thing, what we identify is I got to do this, I got to go here, I got to support this. It's like, no, that ain't your responsibility.

Desiree Brown: 10:58

Yeah, so I love that, because what you all are talking about is it are some of the things that are, I guess, the foundations of the decision. Right, like the things that, like you said, have to happen. So you got to, money has to come in, okay, we cannot just be out here, that's one thing. And then you know, taking care of the well, the children, like if you happen to be a part of a family where there are children, so making sure that their educational needs are met and you know their, whatever they have going on, is also taken care of where it's as least disruptive to their lives as possible, not to say that their lives won't be disrupted, because we can talk about our moving story, and that was a little bit disruptive, um, but there were some, but there were still some things that could not change even in that um, so, so so that talks about, like, the needs, like, if we talk about hierarchy of like importance, the prioritization of what's going on in the situation. There's the needs.

Vernon Brown: 11:51

I would think your first need would be I need to do my job well enough to keep it.

Desiree Brown: 11:57

But then I think we get into the gray area of this of the decision.

Vernon Brown: 12:00

Is it about keeping the job, is it about excelling in the job, like, where is the need, where is the foundation? And I would like to hear you kind of talk about that.

Desiree Brown: 12:17

Yeah, well, it's kind of why I was going into that, that next portion, because, like I said, some things that I've done are simply because I like to do it and we talk about that. You know, where does that go on this hierarchy of to keep, what to keep and what not to keep? And, like I said, there's some things that are maybe more impactful but less enjoyable. And so, from a career standpoint, you, with wanting to continue to grow, wanting to continue to advance in my career, some of those things still need to be on the table because they simply are impactful and, um, that's kind of that's. That's where I am and I'm like, uh, which things to let go of Do you do you?

Vernon Brown: 13:01

just simply, I guess I have to figure out what my goal is right now well and I think you said something smart there like I don't even think you're like the idea of pushing stuff off of your plate through this exercise. You're not even there yet. You're still just trying to figure out where everything is what do I have, and exactly so?

Vernon Brown: 13:19

first, what has to get done. I got to do my job, figure out what other widgets go along with that, and then the next will be whatever the next level you were going to talk about.

Desiree Brown: 13:28

Yeah, so I guess the first thing.

Vernon Brown: 13:30

Your brow is furrowed.

Eyvette Allen: 13:34

Well, are you talking about again excelling at the job or doing your job? I still don't know.

Desiree Brown: 13:43

Okay, so with my job, which I am not going to disclose on this podcast, but with my job, there's, like my basic job, the job description that was written and I applied for that job. That's that's the job, foundation job, but just like other things that you might have interest in. So there are employee groups, there are maybe initiatives and you're helping to forward the initiative for the organization. I can say this. So, for example, the wellness committee, right, I think we already talked about that.

Vernon Brown: 14:28

You were a stripper. I'm just messing, you just made it sound so serious, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, go ahead.

Desiree Brown: 14:37

I, I'm not. So just just for anybody who might think that was a real comment that was not, that was a joke. Hey, I'm not.

Vernon Brown: 14:44

That's, that's your husband, I right about pushing forward the organization I just pushed for, the organization, organization you're, it is it doesn't matter what organization I'm pushing for people in big organizations know that there are other things that go on.

Desiree Brown: 15:00

I mean, small organizations may not have as many of these little optional things to do, but in any case. So I'm on the wellness committee and one of the things is like doing we do presentations for the division, we do um or or uh. Anyway, we do presentations for the part of the organization we're in. Or we might do like some initiatives like, I don't know, get active this month, like a month of activity or something like that.

Vernon Brown: 15:30

You know just which isn't a part of your job, which is not a part of my job. It's just separate stuff.

Desiree Brown: 15:34

It helps with morale, it helps with just productivity in the long run. People are active and they are enjoying their work they tend to do their work better are enjoying their work, they tend to do their work better. So all of those those things there there is impact, but, um, I do it because I just I like wellness. So that's just one of the things that I have done. There are other things where I'm actually the lead of a committee and this is actually developing policy or influencing policy changes within a part of your job.

Desiree Brown: 16:06

This is not a part of my job, but it just happens to be influencing how the division that I work in operates and including some things that help with just supporting our staff members in it. So these are like just volunteer things, like, hey, we have this thing going on. Is there anyone interested in joining this committee to help forward these things? Now, why would anybody do this? It's a question that I know y'all both are looking at me like why do you do these things? Well with although it's not a part of my job, with the type of job I have, showing leadership and show her helps with career advancement. Yeah, being involved, being an asset to the place where you are, helps with job advancement. It makes you a more valuable resource at the organization, because I do all the extra stuff for free and I'm good at it, or I'm enjoying it or whatever the case may be it. Either way, it can help in that side of things.

Desiree Brown: 17:11

So it is not my daily. I need to check in on this committee every day. That's not it, but I do all these things, but I do a lot of these things and so I'm like all right. So the first things. First the things that I don't enjoy and are not very impactful, I'm cutting those first right. So the first things first. The things that I don't enjoy and are not very impactful, I'm cutting those first. I already know that. But for some of the other things, where it is kind of this war between how much it is going to help with advancement and how much I enjoy it, I'm kind of in this pool of what do I keep or what do I let go, or do I let go of all of it and just start from scratch. That's another option. Okay, not the job, though right, no, no, I guess.

Eyvette Allen: 17:51

My question is why do you feel you have to let go if you?

Desiree Brown: 17:56

enjoy it.

Eyvette Allen: 17:56

Why do you feel you have to let go of that?

Desiree Brown: 18:01

I'm the type person when they ask me do you, would you like to participate in this thing? I'm like, oh, sounds good, sure? So I've raised my hand for too many things. Essentially, I just have it's not. I just can't keep it all and and continue to do well in the way that I want to at my basic job, my, the job I was hired for. So in order to have the time to advance in that and be the best in that, I have to let go of some of the extra okay, say something burning.

Eyvette Allen: 18:38

Okay, I'm still processing. Yeah, because I'm looking in a different direction.

Vernon Brown: 18:42

Yeah, but I want to hear what he has to say, because he lives with you and y'all are married, so he has a better insight I don't know who's better, but no, no, but but I I think, I think once again, I think your main thing has to be your main thing what can't move in the performance of your basic role.

Vernon Brown: 19:03

Even if you're amazing and all this extra stuff, if you don't get your high marks in your basic role, it's not going to mean anything. So I think, at the foundational level, you can't stack so much on the next level that it cracks the foundation. So that's number one, figuring out what it is that you can manage. And then number two is balancing between what you enjoy and what's going to be most impactful, maybe not even in your own eyes, but in the eyes of those who you think will aid in pushing forward your career. If that's the goal and why you're doing this, in addition to just enjoyment, then I think figuring out what's going to move that needle the most, that's going to have the most impact, will be super important.

Desiree Brown: 19:45

Yeah, and you said something you know, like not piling so much on that the foundation gets cracked, and I won't say that it's like cracked, but I will say I feel like I just need to put some more attention there so it doesn't crack. And, main thing, the main reason is because there's been a lot of ebbs and flows with in my daily job, in a sense of not just like the amount of, not the workload well, yes, the workload but also like we had a lot of staffing changes, like I started all of these um, collateral duties is what we call them. So I started all of those things under different leadership when and the job was a little bit different where I think now I'm being I don't know if necessarily required I don't think that's, I think that's too strong of a word, but I think the expectations are a little different and so I want to, like, I want to meet them yeah and not just meet them.

Desiree Brown: 20:43

I want to exceed them.

Vernon Brown: 20:44

I want to be great at this in the in my eyes, but also in the eyes of those who make decisions about my performance and just in general so step one find all the stuff that doesn't move, Identify what has to happen and then I think step two is then you start to address all the I'll call non-necessary although you may call necessary because it's important for you to like the stuff you do and all the other and all the other things. Identify what those are and then start to prioritize them as either not mattering or maybe mattering a little bit or mattering a lot to you.

Desiree Brown: 21:23

I see a matrix in my head right now. It's like, okay, not me, it's not that complicated. It's just like if you imagine a box of four, four quarters, so then there's like four quarters, so then there's like most impactful, most enjoyable, most impactful, least enjoyable, least enjoyable, least impactful, least, whatever the other thing is that goes in that fourth corner and then kind of like just putting the pieces and the things, and of course, the things that are most impactful, most enjoyable, that is where you want to be, and then the other two kind of those diagonal corners.

Eyvette Allen: 22:02

that's the part I don't know so let me ask you this then um the thing that you really enjoy, yes. Would that move the needle? Um, as it pertains to your job, no, oh.

Vernon Brown: 22:27

I mean even even as she was talking through the quadrants of most impactful and most enjoyable. I mean maybe y'all love, y'all job with like a different kind of love, but I don't think that they're most often in the same place for most people who have jobs.

Desiree Brown: 22:37

Yeah.

Vernon Brown: 22:37

Like most impactful, most often in the same place, for most people who have jobs. Yeah, like most impactful. Like most impactful for the well may be me sitting down and crunching numbers and thinking about a calendar a year in advance.

Eyvette Allen: 22:47

Not fun, not enjoyable, not no, I don't want to do that.

Vernon Brown: 22:49

So I think the most enjoyable and most impactful are, at times, at odds with each other.

Desiree Brown: 22:53

Absolutely yeah, and and so also because I know I have to do this on top of my daily job and I think that's even a key statement, like I have to do this, do you have to do this? I think the expectation of for advancement, I do think that there is an expectation that you're doing at least something, something that and maybe I need to reevaluate what some, what like what is included in that something, and that's where a conversation often goes back to like there's an expectation that I have to do this to get that, and my thing is what happens if you don't like?

Vernon Brown: 23:41

literally what happens. And there I think there have been times where you do a lot of stuff and advancement still doesn't happen. So for what? It's a great question so your most impactful and most enjoyable would probably be way different than mine, cause mine is okay what I need to keep this job. I keep getting my bump in salary Like that. That's a completely different metric than everything that people portray that you have to do to get to the next level. It's like I don't know if I subscribe to that.

Eyvette Allen: 24:11

But I also think that, um, a lot of that goes back to the areas um, that you, how you, you were raised a lot of times I don't think people put a lot of effort or thought into you were raised that well. I don't care, if you like it, you got to do it. That's, that's just what you do. Where she was raised more of you know, find something that you love and do it. And it was flowery, it was beautiful. Is that the flowery voice.

Eyvette Allen: 24:46

It was beautiful, it was flowery, it's like I want to feel good about it. When I feel good, I do my best job, which there's nothing wrong with that. But as we get older, we often marry opposite. That's the first thing. You're the flower, he's the storm in the rain, storm in the rain. But you water her and she and she grows.

Eyvette Allen: 25:11

So there we go you need that, and flowers need water and she brings the beautiful softness to you where you can appreciate what you know beauty you guys create together. So here's the thing I think for you, if it was him, I think the answer would be different, because for you, it's important that you have an attachment, so it is necessary for you to have that part that you enjoy and I don't want you to, you know, downplay that, because it helps you to do a better job when you get over here and you have the thing that you don't like. So I think that's that's a necessity. Where I would look into making changes is not necessarily the job because, again, it's necessary that you enjoy a certain part of it because that helps you to do the hard things. I would look at how can I free up more time over here, where I will have time to do that, because for you, I think, it's a necessity. For you, I think, um, results is what is what you, you know, what drives you, what do you think?

Vernon Brown: 26:23

that's completely opposite of how I would come at it, but it's so well, so well. No, mine would be like none of this stuff is required. Why are you doing it like my? The thing I tell her is does it impact your paycheck? No, what are you doing it like? The thing I tell her is does it impact your paycheck? No, what are you doing it for? Like you work for a check, and if it doesn't impact your check, like, what are you doing for it?

Desiree Brown: 26:50

it doesn't impact my check, like I don't get paid to do these extra things. Yeah, it doesn't impact you in that moment, but I guess guess it doesn't impact your shape Well it's.

Desiree Brown: 27:02

It's the showing of leadership, the showing of advancement and readiness for the next level. That is part of what we, what I, what I do, and and it can. I guess there are ways that it can be done in the, the day-to-day job, and perhaps I need to look for more opportunities for in that regard and kind of maybe I can get rid of some of the other extra stuff. Um, but it doesn't impact it in that moment, but it's kind of a longer term goal and outcome that I'm looking for. Does that make sense?

Vernon Brown: 27:36

I hear what you're saying. It doesn't't make sense to me, like, at the end of the day, it doesn't impact your check, like okay. And I mean, and you could say in the future, sometime, when the wind blows, I'm going to get, I'm going to get a raise or whatever, and it sounds good but it's not guaranteed. Like. So you kill yourself for five years for a chance which still probably may not come.

Desiree Brown: 27:59

And and you have a very good point, because that is what I've been talking to some of my co-workers and colleagues about is like there is kind of there has been, anyway this idea that you do all these things, all these things, all these things, all these things, and it eventually will lead you to what you want, which is advancement things, and it eventually will lead you to what you want, which is advancement. And then we have found that that a lot of people have been doing all the things that have not been advancing, and so it has. That has been another part of the crossroads where it's like huh, I need to reckon, I need to figure out what's what like, what am I doing and why am I doing it, and all of that.

Vernon Brown: 28:39

You yes, go there, go there okay for me.

Eyvette Allen: 28:46

When it comes to that type of situation, I always look, not where I'm at, not where I begun, but in the end, when, when it's time that I realize I'm not going to get the promotion, when I look back, when I decide to make a change and I look back, I want to make sure that I did everything that I was supposed to do. Because when you, when you stop um doing and then the advancement doesn't come, you always question was it that I didn't do enough? And so I think that, knowing your personality, who you are, that'll also help, because for me, if I did everything I was supposed to do along the way, I don't have a problem with walking away and saying okay that just wasn't right.

Eyvette Allen: 29:36

But you know that I did what I was supposed to do. And when I leave, I know that you miss what I bought.

Vernon Brown: 29:43

But that's just for my inner self, the inner fulfillment of myself, to say I think that's a two-sided coin, though I think you can look at that side, but I also think there's a side to look at, to say not did I do everything, but was it worth it? Because you're talking about all of these like holding three jobs at one time in order to show yourself as worthy of a promotion. I think if you look back and there's a conversation to say, did I do enough? But I think there's also a conversation to say was it worth it? Like am I okay with what I invested, now with the knowledge of it coming up empty?

Eyvette Allen: 30:24

Yeah, can I say that is such a male person.

Vernon Brown: 30:27

Are you?

Eyvette Allen: 30:28

serious why you think so. I do why? Because men have the ability to just cut off and go and they're okay, but a woman wants to know that she's done everything that she could right, and so it's really different in how women you know.

Desiree Brown: 30:47

I did all of these things and it cost me it cost me things, it cost me time with my family.

Desiree Brown: 31:10

I wasn't able to do this, or I, um, you know, maybe I didn't, maybe I was going to get married or wanted to get married, and perhaps because my career was career in I, I I did that. I missed that particular opportunity at that time. Maybe it'll come back around, but I do think that there is a worth it question that I'm I am also grappling with, because we have these things going on. We have our, our business, we have our small children, we have our marriage and our family, we have, like, our extended family, and all of these things are, um, uh, demanding sounds very strong, but they're demanding of at least some time in order to keep the relationships and the things going. And I still have a full time job, and a half or two perhaps, depending on how you look at it. So I am again what is worth it Like? What is going to stand at the end of it all, and will I be okay with the outcomes of whatever I chose?

Vernon Brown: 32:16

I think that's the second principle. The first principle was what do I have to get done? And I think the second following principle, in which there's no rhyme or reason, you just have to figure it out. What works for you is what? Will I be okay, looking back on and not having regrets, and whether that's you know I should have done more or whether that's I sacrificed too much, whatever it looks like. What are you willing to do or not do? Fast forward to the end of the road, look back and say I still stand by that. What can I live with within myself? And I think, when you look at it through that lens, like, okay, if I, if I don't get my bonus because I made this decision, am I okay?

Vernon Brown: 32:56

right if I do get my bonus because I made this decision. Am I okay? Yeah, and if you can look back at your decision point with that level of all right, I can accept it. Then I think that's your whittled down list of things that you do, but not a thing more, not a thing less.

Vernon Brown: 33:11

Yeah, that's good, that's really good it doesn't make it any easier to figure out like you know how much is enough and how little is enough. But I think for you to make any decision, and mostly the difficult decisions. If we get down the road and this thing just catches on fire and burns, what do I need to do for me to be in that moment and be like I did all I can do to go back to what you said, Because life is going to burn, Some stuff is going to burn up.

Desiree Brown: 33:38

Yeah.

Vernon Brown: 33:39

But for us to get to that point and still be okay, we have to make decisions with that in mind and not just end up there and it's like oh wait, I wish I would've done this. Why didn't you think about that before?

Desiree Brown: 33:55

Yeah, that's a lot of wisdom and I'm like having a oh, okay, that might. That, I think, will help both. Actually, I think all of this will help with this decision. Oddly enough, some of the other decisions that were actually more major seem to be less difficult to make.

Vernon Brown: 34:16

Sometimes major decisions, because they have, like, real consequences, are easier, like it may be. It may be there may be more at risk, but they're easier to make because it's like well, it's only this or that and that's bad, so let me do this.

Vernon Brown: 34:30

It's like you can. To go back to your example, like we can stay here and apply and never end up having anything else, or I can widen my search and see what happens there. It's there. The implications of it are much more disruptive, to use your word, but it's a little bit easier because it's black or white. Yeah, am I going to swim or I'm going to sink, yeah, so what you going to do? You going to swim or you going to sink? I'm swimming. Now the question is what does that mean?

Desiree Brown: 35:02

What am I swimming in? I don't know. I had to figure out what I'm swimming in and where am Iies? Like we're good and we're good, um, but but yeah, I that's. That's an interesting realization for me, anyway, that I'm like huh, I feel like the decision to move our family from one state to another, yeah, it's a whole lot easier easier than like what do I get take off my plate and they're like inconsequent.

Desiree Brown: 35:22

well, I won't say inconsequential Well, I won't say inconsequential totally, but like, comparatively speaking, the consequences are quite low, but I think that was more of a spiritual thing for you, and that's just like what Vernon was saying, as far as the way I always summed it up is what are you willing to die for?

Eyvette Allen: 35:44

And my thing, that escalated quickly what are you willing to die for? And my thing escalated quickly. It's like if I make this decision, and let's say, if I have to, someone comes back and questions me um, let's say, in five to 10 years, would I be willing to stand by and die for that same decision? And if you? If you are, then that's the route you go. And for me, I always ask myself if I was standing before God and I made this decision, would I still make the same decision? And, like you said, when it was time to move, you knew that was a God moment.

Eyvette Allen: 36:21

And so you were like oh no, I'm not going to stand before God and say I didn't do it.

Desiree Brown: 36:25

That is very true. That was, yeah, that was very true. And so I guess we've talked about, like these different levels of decision making, like some are kind of life and death, if you will. Like, I need to feed my family so we don't have to move from this place because you know the pond is small and so are the options, and so we need to go to a bigger pond and have big, bigger options so we can support the family. Um, or is God telling us to move, or is God not telling us to move? Okay, he's telling us to move. We probably should move. We don't?

Vernon Brown: 36:59

I mean, maybe something will happen, maybe it won't, but you know that for there's there's the eternal consequences of that, and this is not eternal what I'm dealing with, but it is important to me as I was thinking through different, because as you talked about levels of decisions, you got like the big stuff, the God stuff, if you will, you have moving a family, then you have, you know your job and maybe what do you buy versus not buy and what do you?

Desiree Brown: 37:25

have for dinner.

Vernon Brown: 37:26

And what do you have for dinner and what do you have for dinner. But I think sometimes we magnify the big decisions too much to make them look more difficult and then we minimize the small decisions too much to make them look too small okay and, and I think, if we can find a balance and and having equal value of all decisions, then we might actually start making progress on our goals.

Vernon Brown: 37:48

Because a lot of times the goals that go year after year that we never, ever meet are because it's those small decisions that we so minimize the importance of that. It contradicts the integrity to use your word of what our goals are Like think about it.

Vernon Brown: 38:03

Does it matter whether I get this or that for dinner? Well, it may not matter to you, but what would the person who's been trying to lose weight for the last 15 years and looks at their mirror and hates themselves because they're not where they want to be? Well, that person would say it's really important, but you in the moment, says you don't want fries with that.

Vernon Brown: 38:23

You see what I'm saying yeah, and so I think a lot of our decisions are tied to our broader goals, but because we minimize them so much sometimes, that's the reason why we can never make progress you see how this podcast goes.

Desiree Brown: 38:37

We'll be in here just talking about something else and then it's like real, like oh, heavy, but not heavy, and like go ahead.

Vernon Brown: 38:43

I was gonna say because, like, really, I was thinking of us examples, like does it matter if I eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in the middle of the night? Well, I mean, I've worked out.

Eyvette Allen: 38:51

Lebronski killed me today, so I can have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

Vernon Brown: 38:55

But December 31st 2024, when I go and turn the pages back to my January 1 goals, am I where I'm supposed to be? Am I where I want to be, and did that decision matter? Well, in the moment I said no, but when I'm sitting there December 31 and saying I'm still not where I want to be it mattered a whole heck of a lot.

Eyvette Allen: 39:14

But so often I think we focus so much on the end goal that we don't think about the process. Because I also went through the journey of weight loss and I used to, you know, sit there and it's like I'm going to get to this weight, I'm going to get to this weight, I want to get to this weight, and I failed. And finally, by the time I made it to 54, you know, I just sat there and I looked at myself one day and I'm like, forget it, I am not going to live the rest of my life this size. And my frustration led me to I'm going to do one thing that I know that I can do for the rest of my life to get this thing under control. And I'm not worried about the weight, I'm worried about the process. And so I began to focus on the process.

Eyvette Allen: 40:10

And the process for me was I have to get up every morning and walk. That's the process, nothing more, nothing less. I'm not thinking about eating, I'm not thinking about weight loss, I'm just thinking about every morning that I get up, I will walk and to kind of compare it to what you're saying, desiree, it's every morning or every day. I need to put aside this amount of time to get done what I need to do, and I'm not going to add anything in. I'm not going to add anything. You know, take the place of it, yeah, but I'm going to focus in on this one thing the process. Not not the goal, but the process.

Vernon Brown: 40:53

Yeah, that's I mean I like that. It sounds like you just took that decision and said forget that. This decision that I make every day is going to be the most important decision that I make.

Desiree Brown: 41:03

Yeah.

Vernon Brown: 41:04

And if I take care of the pennies, the dollars will take care of themselves.

Desiree Brown: 41:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, this is good, All all food for thought, things to consider, and it helped me to actually make my, my choices that I need to make for for in this moment, for this time.

Desiree Brown: 41:24

But also I know this is seasonal, like it's something we talk about reflection a lot on on on this uh show, and so it's like I came to this because I was reflecting, because I'm in the season of, okay, I gotta, I'm being assessed for my performance and all of that stuff and you have to write about, like, what you did and impact and all that stuff. And so it's like okay, well, what, what was in fact, what did I do and did it make a difference? And so all of those things have led to this. All right, it's time to cut bait on some stuff. It's time to maybe maybe I'm seeing an area where I need to like, bolster and do more activity in this particular area. Maybe some of that other stuff, although it was enjoyable, it served its purpose and the season for it is over and maybe the season will come back around, but maybe it won't. But I think that's that's certainly what prompted the thought, the conversation and the angst around making these decisions about what what to keep and what not to keep.

Vernon Brown: 42:27

So to boil everything down.

Vernon Brown: 42:30

I think we came up with three main principles. Number one when you come to a crossroads, find the things that don't move and identify what matters and what cannot change. Number two we talked about making your decisions as to what you pile on top of that based upon what you can look back on and live with yourself with. And then, I think, point number three what you just said is recognize your life as a bunch of seasons and with each season you need to go back and reassess, because every new season brings forth new change and every new change may change that priority list as it was before and, interestingly enough, because of the decision that was made, like in your example, the decision that you made to just walk you actually did experience some weight loss and some changes in your life.

Desiree Brown: 43:17

Your health improved. All of these different things happened and some of the things that you had, maybe some clothes or some old habits they just were no longer useful anymore because season yeah this. It was a different season, so that's really cool. Okay, I don't know y'all have so much wisdom. Is there more I got to say to?

Vernon Brown: 43:37

tell me everything out of me, I don't know.

Desiree Brown: 43:40

I think it was good. I really appreciate your thoughts, your input into this. You're invited to come back.

Vernon Brown: 43:47

You're an inviter back.

Desiree Brown: 43:48

Yeah. We got to think of something.

Vernon Brown: 43:51

You know, the first time they're on their best behavior, the second time it's.

Desiree Brown: 43:54

Well, listen, I'm sure you will reveal more of yourself as you become more comfortable.

Eyvette Allen: 44:02

I like the perspective. I like the young perspective and the old perspective, because years will eventually change your perspective.

Vernon Brown: 44:12

And we know that old stuff don't work anyway, yeah but no but. I.

Desiree Brown: 44:20

I appreciate it as well. The wisdom clearly y'all know Vernon, and he's drops these nuggets, but this lady right here. Yeah, that's where where he gets it from. But, um, yeah, this is good. If there's anything you want to come back and talk about, maybe you can come up with a topic and we can. We can do that. That'd be fun, That'd be fun.

Vernon Brown: 44:41

I think it'd be awesome.

Desiree Brown: 44:43

All right. Well, I want to thank you all for joining us. Tell us about your crossroad experiences. We want to know, like, what you have been warring with, what you have to make a decision about, and how you made that. So put it in the comments, like subscribe, share, send it to somebody who is in a crossroad situation because they might get something out of it. I think this is a good way.

Vernon Brown: 45:04

You should be that friend to be like. You need this you need this.

Desiree Brown: 45:08

I heard this and I thought of you. Whatever, whatever it takes.

Eyvette Allen: 45:12

We would love that yeah, is there any possibility that you guys want?

Vernon Brown: 45:18

oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, we listen it's been a few topics where we've gotten from comments just people asking questions or you know a lot of people don't want to put their on, loss it. On Text Right so that'll become the next conversation, but if you have topics or anything you want to, you think you want to hear about, put it in there. We'll certainly make that. Maybe make that our next conversation. We're a few weeks ahead as far as recording.

Desiree Brown: 45:47

So maybe, yeah, but please, yeah, please, do comment, like, subscribe, share and what was it? Oh, yeah, one day, one of these days, I'm putting this on camera because this is the goal of mine. I want to do this live, like I would love to have an audience to be here and to like ask the question, so we can incorporate that like as we're actually doing it. Yeah, so that's like a longer term goal. I don't know how long. Maybe I don't know. I don't know. Long term in this regard would be like a few months from now or like a few years from now, but we'll see how it all unfolds, because there's a process that's happening right now so anyway thank you for joining us for conversations at the well and we will see you next time.

Desiree Brown: 46:22

Bye.