Vernon Brown: 0:00

Thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for joining us for this conversation at the well, but wait. Before we get started, I want to invite you to subscribe, to hit the thumbs up button like this, comment on it so we can have a broader conversation about the topic of passion. But before we get into passion, how are you doing today? Now, I expect it to be such a much quicker answer.

Desiree Brown: 0:24

Because I like to give you an honest answer. Okay, well, what's your honest?

Vernon Brown: 0:26

answer.

Desiree Brown: 0:27

I've been doing good today.

Vernon Brown: 0:28

After all that, you're going to say good yeah.

Desiree Brown: 0:31

Because I had to think about it. It's one thing to say good and just keep things moving. It's another thing to say good and actually be good Okay.

Vernon Brown: 0:37

Well, I'm glad that you're good how are you? I am.

Desiree Brown: 0:43

You're going to say good, good, I'm fine, I'm okay, I'm good. That's your answer. All the time?

Vernon Brown: 0:47

Yeah, but I added a dramatic pause to that one.

Desiree Brown: 0:49

Yeah, but was it filled with thought or was it just for drama? It was for effect, yeah, so it wasn't with thought. No, okay, I'll ask you how you really are doing later.

Vernon Brown: 0:58

Okay, okay, it's been a little bit since we recorded, so it's been, I think, two weeks right, we didn't record last week yeah. And the week before. I don't think we recorded either.

Desiree Brown: 1:10

Yeah, cause you've been out doing family stuff. Yeah, tell us a little bit about that. You want to talk about that now or save it for another episode?

Vernon Brown: 1:17

Oh, you're right, we did change the topic.

Desiree Brown: 1:19

Okay, yeah, you're sorry, I can cut that out later no, we'll keep it in it's fine we'll talk about that in another episode, but, um, yeah, I was out for two weeks, uh, and I missed doing this really I love doing this talking to me I miss talking to you. I love talking to you.

Vernon Brown: 1:36

You're my favorite person oh yeah, I give you a 20 after oh it's worth more than that.

Desiree Brown: 1:42

Thank you, no, but um, but yeah, today's episode was actually. It kind of came from something I was asked to do.

Vernon Brown: 1:51

Oh, yes, you know, I was sitting here trying to remember, like what brought up this topic and I couldn't remember that conversation, but you're right, it was brought up because of that and we started talking about what are our well, I should say what is or what are our passions.

Desiree Brown: 2:07

Yes, so I was asked to do a presentation for a women's group and it was supposed to be talking about our passion projects. It's been rescheduled. It was actually going to happen today, but I was like, oh my gosh, what are my passions? I have projects for sure, responsibilities for sure, passions. I'm still working through that.

Vernon Brown: 2:39

Which is so crazy because you know you do so much, we do so much. But to ask what your passion is, I don't know. I think for a lot of people they would kind of take a pause, because we know what we do, we know what we have to do, but what do your passion sounds like a different question.

Desiree Brown: 2:55

Yeah, so one of the things I am guilty of, have been guilty of and I'm working through this. I don't know if it's a good or a bad thing. I think it has its good points, but sometimes I wonder about it. But I have a tendency that when there is something like at work or what have you, that someone, like people, ask me to do things, they probably ask me to do things because they know it's more than likely going to be a yes, you don't know how to say no at all.

Desiree Brown: 3:28

I am learning how to say no and we talked about that in previous episodes just kind of making room and space in life.

Desiree Brown: 3:35

But I still do find myself saying yes quite often, and it's also interesting because I, as we talk about passions, some sometimes I'm not being brought on or participating in something because it's a passion, but simply because someone asked, and I like to help people, I like to try to add value to the lives of others, of others, and so, um, in doing that I've.

Desiree Brown: 4:08

I guess the good part of saying yes to things is that you do get an opportunity to learn a whole bunch of stuff about a whole bunch of stuff, because it's not really topic specific but and you kind of learn some different skills, you get exposed to different things and different people, and so there's a good part of that, um, but I also also have found my plate being my, my, my cup runneth over, okay, my plate being too full, I can't, it's too much. So I have been trying to, I would like to better understand what my passions are so that I can direct my attention and my energy and my focus into those things more, and it will also help me determine what things to say yes to, and what things to say. I think I'll pass on this one.

Vernon Brown: 4:51

And, over the time, thinking about this, like you would ask well, you would. You would ask a few questions, and one of the things that I think about is life, especially in your young age. Thank you, yes, cause you're so much younger than me and your young age isn't really set up for passion. It's set up for what do I need to do to create a career? What do I need to do to get to college? What do I need to do to get through grad school?

Vernon Brown: 5:17

And so you know, for many of us who don't have the luxury of um, many of us who don't have the luxury of um, I guess, people paying our way, if that makes sense Um, you don't really get it. I mean, you somewhat get an opportunity to to choose a passion, but it's more like did your passion make money? If not, put that thing on the back burner to make some money and so but. But I do think there's a place and there's an importance, um, at some level of life or some place in life, to figure that out. Because whether it be now that you figure it out as a luxury, or whether it be later, when the kids move out and you're retired and you're sitting around trying to figure out what you want to do with yourself. Finding that passion is going to be what keeps you going and, quite frankly, what keeps you alive, because if you don't have anything to live for, you're probably not going to live much longer.

Desiree Brown: 6:05

Yeah, maybe I don't know.

Vernon Brown: 6:09

I think people without things to live for like die, like you have old people whose dogs die and they just die right there with them, or later, because they don't have anything to do.

Desiree Brown: 6:18

Yeah, I maybe could say that Perhaps I think there's some truth in it. I maybe could say that, perhaps that I think there's some truth in it. I don't know if it's fully true, no Cause. God says when you supposed to like, when your days are over, it's not your pet or your pet project, it's the it's.

Vernon Brown: 6:34

That's it's a little bit more complex than that If, if, if, you want to go down that path. Um, your days are over when you're quote unquote, finished that your days are over when you're quote unquote finished. That's true, and so that finishing portion usually aligns with passion or purpose and in some ways those can be you know the same term or used to describe the same thing.

Desiree Brown: 6:53

Okay, We'll go with that.

Vernon Brown: 6:54

I think that is you can get with that one.

Desiree Brown: 6:56

I can get with that. So it's kind of related, but unrelated, just part related to this part. You know I like well Blue Zones. When I say Blue Zones, yeah. So Blue Zones if you're not familiar with it, there is a. It was a book written and there's actually a Netflix documentary on the Blue Zones, but it's so fascinating Y'all it's like about longevity and where there are people who have what do they call them Octogenarians, nonagenarians, and people who live.

Vernon Brown: 7:25

I have people who live up. What do they call them?

Desiree Brown: 7:24

octogenarians, nonogenarians and people who live people who live up into their 80s and their 90s and their 100s, like there are places in the world where this is actually kind of prevalent, and so this blue zone.

Vernon Brown: 7:37

Blue zones are those areas and there's a study so, to simplify it, a blue zone is basically where our outliers in life, people who live a long time, still flourishing and thriving is normal.

Desiree Brown: 7:49

Correct, I was getting there.

Vernon Brown: 7:51

I'm sorry, you were just circling, it's all right, and you didn't throw in our oxygenation and all these big words.

Desiree Brown: 7:59

We're the 80, 90, 100 year olds where there is a large number of them, where they live and what are their habits and kind of what, what um contributes to their longevity, and actually having something like having something to live for is part of that the first time because I was like well, there's more to it, because there is more to it, because there's a.

Desiree Brown: 8:18

They're like healthy practices, like you can't just like eat fried stuff every single day of your life and expect that you will outlive your, your dog. I mean, it's just well, maybe you might live, outlive your dog, but you see what I'm saying like there's more keeping score.

Vernon Brown: 8:33

That's one point.

Desiree Brown: 8:34

Vernon zero desiree I don't know that. Leave in the comments like who you think is getting some uh points for this one anyway. But yes, okay, I'm just. I was trying to say I can understand and I support that thing.

Vernon Brown: 8:52

There's just more to it see her trying to earn her point back. You see, yeah, okay. So so blue zones passions yeah connected disconnected connected okay, so connected. Um. So, on the topic of passion, I think well, first and foremost, I looked up the definition, because when you first ask what's your passion. You kind of have to know what a passion is, and I don't know that I even agree with this definition. It's a bunch of them in here who are you referencing?

Desiree Brown: 9:18

this is google oxford languages okay, I, I can.

Vernon Brown: 9:22

I can mess with oxford you want to try urban dictionary I like miriam and miriam webster I don't know how to go into the I have the app on my phone you use it that much, I really. That's probably why you know words like oxygen or whatever oxygen area, oxygen area oh, octogen, it's like octagon octogenarian anyway.

Vernon Brown: 9:42

Um so all right, mary, mary webster's dictionary. So passion, um, okay, oh. Number one is the sufferings of christ between the night of the last supper and his death. Okay, number two is just suffering. Number the state or capacity of being acted on by external agents or forces. Number four the emotion as distinguished from reason. Four B intense driving or over mastering feeling or conviction. C An outbreak of anger.

Desiree Brown: 10:25

So which one are we talking about?

Vernon Brown: 10:26

I don't like Webster's definition. I think it's horrible.

Desiree Brown: 10:29

I think it's the second to the last one about a driving force that makes you do things right.

Vernon Brown: 10:38

Okay, Oxford Languages says a strong or barely controllable emotion. Number two a state or outburst of strong emotion. Did I just read that? Number three intense sexual love. Number four an intense desire or enthusiasm for something which I think it's that one. And number four a thing arousing enthusiasm.

Desiree Brown: 11:07

Okay, well, let's go back to the reread, the definition that we are discussing today. Which one do you want to go with?

Vernon Brown: 11:13

The third, oxford one An intense desire or enthusiasm for something.

Desiree Brown: 11:19

An intense desire or enthusiasm for something. Yes, do we agree and settle.

Vernon Brown: 11:23

That's going to be the definition An intense desire or enthusiasm for something. Do we agree and settle that's going to be the definition? That's the definition An intense desire or enthusiasm for something.

Desiree Brown: 11:29

Yes. So what is yours? What is your passion? What are you in? Was it intensely enthusiastic or I don't remember? Desire, desire, I don't know. Anyway, desire is, I don't know. Anyway, what's your passion?

Vernon Brown: 11:50

I would say I'm passionate about, and it's changed a little bit, as I really would not change. Well, it has changed, um, as I've gotten to know myself a little more, um, but even since our conversation yesterday, I think I'm going to change or tweak the description a little bit.

Desiree Brown: 12:06

Well, can we talk about both or all or what have you so kind of take us on the journey so I think passion is not a one thing that you're just enthralled with throughout your entire life. I'm just kidding, go ahead. I'm sorry.

Vernon Brown: 12:23

Keep going. Now. I do think that there may be like an ultimate passion that that champions the majority of your life, like some pot of gold at the end that you're you're being drawn towards. But but I think the passions, or maybe micro passions that we lean into, you know, from the beginning of our life to middle of our life, can change and modify as we better understand ourself and better walk into you know, from the beginning of our life to middle of our life, can change and modify as we better understand ourself and better walk into um our adulthood. So it could be GI Joe when you're a kid, or it could be dinosaurs, like for Aaron she loves dinosaurs, but I don't think that's going to be it throughout the entire life. Maybe, but probably not because they've been gone for a while, um so so. So I do think.

Vernon Brown: 13:05

I do think that whether if you find yourself having a passion that you know just kind of seems innocuous or random, or you don't have a passion at all, like there, it's not a problem because you're still going through the arc of life and learning more about yourself and what you were passionate about in your teenage years. You're probably not passionate about now what you're passionate about in college, teenage years. You're probably not passionate about now. What you're passionate about in college or maybe you're at the beginning of your career, just as a time, as it's as a beacon in time you may not be passionate about anymore. So for me, I would say I'm passionate about teaching. What I said yesterday when we first talked about it was I'm passionate about helping people grow their business. But I think it's broader than that and I think this, the undercurrent of it, or the common thread, is the teaching portion of it.

Vernon Brown: 14:10

And so, yeah, for me, when it comes to people's businesses, it's a great opportunity to one make an impact on their life, to teach them skills that they probably haven't been exposed to. But then three, I think there's also just a confidence building perspective of it, to where you know in the day to day operations of your business and didn't have any thought space to do anything else, or whether it's showing you how to increase or scale it so that you can have more money, have more finances and things like that. You can change everything about a person through the business that they spend the most time with.

Desiree Brown: 14:42

That's pretty cool and I can see why it is, why you're enthusiastic about it. What do you mean? Oh, it's just that's the definition of passion. It's like because there's like some real tangible things, that real tangible results that come out of helping people build their businesses. But, like you said, more broadly, it's the teaching aspect.

Vernon Brown: 15:04

Yeah, and this kind of goes back to our conversation about generosity too, because, as I was thinking about, you know the definition of being passionate about it. You're passionate about doing this thing and it's not the business itself. I think, it's the business attached to the person, because if it's an absent owner or an owner that's not really involved in the day-to-day operation, I really care less. It's about the people, not necessarily the business itself for me. So that's why I zoomed it out to teaching. Yeah, that makes sense, so, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Desiree Brown: 15:36

Well, okay, you can ask your question, because I think I know where you're going. I think, but maybe I don't. I think, but maybe I don't. I would like to know how, talking about this arc of your life, how did you kind of discover, did you happen upon it, did it throw itself in your lap? How did this come about?

Vernon Brown: 15:59

That's a good question. I think it's that arc thing I talked about before, where I've always had a desire to tweak things and to improve things and make them better, faster, stronger, whatever that looks like If you're talking about Legos as a kid, all the way to other things as you get older, and so I think there was always the want, but what changed was the. It Does that make sense, it does, and so I think it's been pretty consistent throughout my life. Um, I just didn't know what words to put around it and um, yeah, I think that's what I would say, for for me at least. Yeah, I don't know how true that is, like, I think it's true but it's, you know everything looks, you think it's true, but it's.

Vernon Brown: 16:41

You know. Everything looks. You think everything's true in your own eyes, but I mean, it makes sense from how.

Desiree Brown: 16:50

how do you connect Legos to business? That would be the connection. It's like the, the tweaking, the. Oh, let me try this Like it's some experimentation really, I think there's just like an you like to see if I, I, if I push this button, what will happen?

Vernon Brown: 17:06

kind of thing.

Desiree Brown: 17:07

Or if I do it this way, or if I change, maybe if I do this first instead of the other thing, first what happens and as a child I'm sure that looks it probably drove your parents crazy, I will say that. But it has lend, it has lended itself. I don't know if that's the right way to say it, but it has. It has come up in a more mature and productive way, as opposed to just like dismantling whatever was around and trying to put it back together and make it better.

Vernon Brown: 17:43

And I think I think also, um like for me. I, like a lot of people, desire success, whatever that looks like, but at the same time, I also want to balance that with what's important to me, which is family and relationships and things like that. So I think trying to figure out how to have it both ways is something that's really driven me to focus on, like process and procedure. How can I be excellent, but I don't have to be excellent Like how can I be present, although I don't have to be present?

Desiree Brown: 18:21

Yeah, I'm glad I'm married to you, because I need to figure that out so for you, madam mrs brown yes, mr. What are?

Vernon Brown: 18:32

you passionate about I don't know.

Desiree Brown: 18:39

I do not know, I've been, I've been trying to answer this question because I was asked to speak on my passions.

Desiree Brown: 18:46

I really don't know. Okay, I really don't know and and, like I said, it's because I've had a lot of experiences with a lot of random things over my life, right, and they've been a majority like really great experiences, but it's kind of like, well, once it done, I'm not like actively trying to do it again, but it was fun, I enjoyed it, I learned something, it's cool. But I don't know and I was trying to think of, like what is the thing that I come? If I'm looking for a common thread in my life, as you have kind of done, what thing, what, what is it for me? I don't know. I told you, I think, earlier.

Desiree Brown: 19:31

I was, like I love Jesus, like, can that be my passion? I don't know, because there's been a lot of things that I've done Um, probably even more things on my own that I've actually sought out opportunities around that, around teaching, you know, doing Bible studies, small groups, like connecting with people, encouraging people, praying for people, serving in some capacity, because I think that that's just like what Jesus wants me to do, you know, like it's just, it's those. I don't know. I don't know if that would be a passion, though. So I have I don't know, I don't know. You're serious, I'm very serious, like I know that I love people, I love relationships with people and even prefer, like the depth, deep relationships where, so you're 57.

Desiree Brown: 20:26

It stop it, sir. Stop it right now.

Vernon Brown: 20:29

Don't have this audience thinking I'm 57 although I would look very good for 57, but I'm not and you don't know what you're passionate or what you're passionate about, so do you think, wow, okay, so let's dive into you. Okay, you're acting surprised. What do you think? Wow, okay, so let's dive into you.

Desiree Brown: 20:45

Okay, you're acting surprised. What do you mean? Well, I mean, we're just talking about it.

Vernon Brown: 20:50

Like we had this conversation yesterday. I assumed you would come up with something like oh, that's my passion.

Desiree Brown: 20:56

I like painting, but I don't do it very often. I like planning things. You're wildly unique or this is more normal than one would expect. I like planning things, but I don't do anything.

Vernon Brown: 21:05

Either you're wildly unique or this is more normal than one would expect. So the question would be what is it like living life without a passion? Like, does it matter? Like do you think your life would be different if you were passionate about something, or do you just think it's just?

Desiree Brown: 21:25

I what? I don't know what life would be like if I had a passion, because I don't have a passion. It's hard to describe what would it be like a passion.

Desiree Brown: 21:35

Only because we have this conversation, I'm like should I? I should have a passion right, like every we should have passions, right? I don't know, but I don't know if that's really a real thing, like I don't know if it's some kind of a, like a newer societal construct that we have this like, but do follow your passions, follow your heart, you know that kind of thing. Like I just think that's actually something that is a newer thought, because the people of of of other times times, different times, they just didn't have the luxury of just like, oh, let me go and do. They just didn't have that. It was their. Their occupation was dictated by their family and their family business, their. What area of the world they are from. Like you may want to, maybe you enjoy teaching, or maybe you um would love to fly airplanes, but you live in a place where rice is the rice farming is the thing so.

Vernon Brown: 22:42

So let's go back to the beginning. Well, actually this is a bad example. I was going to talk about Jesus, and was Jesus passionate about doing the Lord's work, or was that his just work?

Desiree Brown: 22:55

Yeah, I think I think it was, I think it was maybe both. I think it was his work. This is what he was here to do, but he was also, like you know, the the getting up and the prayer and that connection with the father was like. I think that was the passion like the desire, the desire to love and please the father. That was the passion like the desire to love and please the father.

Desiree Brown: 23:23

That was the passion and it was through his work that he did it. But let's be honest, he wasn't always just trying to be in the crowds. That was like, okay, that's my work. Because there were times where he was like let me slip away, and he's like, let me go do something else, I just need to recharge, and the people were still coming for me. He's like I gotta go do my job. So I think there's there's a bit of. I think there's a bit of both to answer the question interesting okay, what do you think?

Vernon Brown: 23:56

well, at first I was going to say that At first it was kind of conflicting, because I was going to say that he was passionate about his father's work because there were other things that he would much rather be doing. Like he would probably really enjoy to like go do something, but the going to enjoy, just going to do something, would probably be more of a passion than the work of his father. So it conflicted and didn't make sense.

Desiree Brown: 24:28

After I thought about it did what I say make sense.

Vernon Brown: 24:30

I'll give it a five out of what? 12? All right, so so. So, let's, let's talk like so, is there anything that you do that you feel alive, doing, yeah, like, and let me explain what that means. Like so for me. Um, you know, you know Sonic the Hedgehog, you know how he's like he runs and then at some point he just starts glowing and just starts going super, super fast he starts getting the ring.

Vernon Brown: 24:57

Well, it's not created by the rings, but it's just like his speed just starts to glow and then he goes like in super mode, like to me, talking about businesses and helping people, like that's it for me, that's it. Like it starts out very much as just a trot and I get like really excited and then I realize that wait, I'm moving way faster than them. Let me slow down, because I get excited about it and the opportunity of it yeah is there anything like that?

Desiree Brown: 25:19

for you. Yeah, what? Um, I was gonna say my original thought was speaking, but I think it's more like teach, teaching, I don't know, but I really enjoy when I am able to be on a when, when I'm able to speak to people, be on a platform to. I don't know. It's a weird thing, cause, like I, I'm not like actively, like oh, let me go.

Vernon Brown: 25:50

But that's weird.

Desiree Brown: 25:51

Cause, like I would.

Vernon Brown: 25:53

I would not say that at all.

Desiree Brown: 25:55

What would you say?

Vernon Brown: 25:56

I don't know, but it wouldn't be that.

Desiree Brown: 25:57

Well, I don't know, but it wouldn't be that. Well, it's the thing that I enjoy.

Vernon Brown: 26:00

Go ahead, and I guess my following question would be like do you really enjoy it or do you think you should enjoy it?

Desiree Brown: 26:06

I actually like really enjoy it, like I think I get a high of a sort. Like that sounds weird to say, but like Are you going back to your addiction?

Vernon Brown: 26:27

I.

Desiree Brown: 26:27

I feel like I'm my best when I have, when I have a not talking not just like conversational, but yes in a, yes in on a platform I feel like I can inspire what does that mean to you? On a platform like, basically, if I have a microphone, there's a microphone now I do.

Desiree Brown: 26:44

Maybe I feel it and I don't feel it now, but, um, I have felt it when I have done presentations for work. I felt it when I have done, um teaching in bible studies. I have felt it when I have done teaching in Bible studies. I have felt it when I have. I felt it when I've been in prayer with others. It's a very strange thing, but I feel as if I get in. I get boosted Emotionally and sometimes spiritually, depending, I guess, the subject, but that's I.

Vernon Brown: 27:27

I very much enjoy that so let's go back to this. Like I want to dive into what this platform platform yeah so what does that mean to you?

Desiree Brown: 27:34

um, because you mentioned prayer.

Vernon Brown: 27:36

You've mentioned stage. You've mentioned microphone yeah but we prayed before this. You have a microphone in front of you, but I don't know that you feel that way in this moment that's true.

Desiree Brown: 27:47

I don't know. I think there's a when there's an audience, if you will like, even if it's a small audience. You're an exhibitionist. Perhaps, I don't know, maybe, maybe, okay. I mean maybe, okay. I don't think in the way that you're thinking, but I think you know, but I don't like.

Vernon Brown: 28:07

I'm trying to think of go ahead. And I'm not. I'm not a let's see a Beyonce who, like you know, a dancer, dancer and singer type of person. It's like twerking on stage that you Did.

Desiree Brown: 28:20

I just say I'm'm not, I'm trying to figure out this platform, and then you went to beyonce, so well, I'm thinking of other people who command a stage okay, so it's, it has to be a stage okay, so we've had, we've had, uh, things here where there we don't have it. We literally do not have a stage and that's what I'm getting.

Vernon Brown: 28:44

Did you? Did you feel it then like when we did um? What was the woman's thing we did?

Desiree Brown: 28:50

yeah, I felt it. Then what was it called the dream? The woman you want to be, or something I don't remember what it's called, but around the vision boards, yeah and so like in that.

Vernon Brown: 28:59

So for me I looked, you know, I thought you were wildly uncomfortable.

Desiree Brown: 29:04

I mean, there's certainly an uncomfortability because. But then there's a point where you're like, all right, just like, let all the things you're being uncomfortable about and just be yourself, and in that moment I'm like I'm good right now and I can be here until I'm done.

Vernon Brown: 29:22

Interesting. Okay, what about a panel? Does a panel feel the same way?

Desiree Brown: 29:27

Yeah, could yes.

Vernon Brown: 29:31

A panel, not on a stage, but just sitting at a table.

Desiree Brown: 29:35

Yes, I don't think it's less about the stage and more about an opportunity to encourage in order to share and encourage. I guess this is a panel, but I what I'm driving to.

Vernon Brown: 29:53

No, this is serious. If so, so, so we I've mentioned being passionate is like the is like sonic lighting up, and so there's a level of power up when you are in this place. Yeah, it was like a glow up when you're in this place, and so I'm wondering is it something that happens circumstantially when you get to the place, or when you recognize that the place is here? And so what I'm trying to get to is we sit at this table. Is it that you don't power up here, or you don't see this as a place to power up, so you don't power up? Does that make sense as a question?

Desiree Brown: 30:39

Yes up. Does that make sense as a question? Yes, I think the difference here is this just feels likea conversation you and I. It's not like. I mean, I'm thinking no, I'm thinking of the people who will watch this later but but also not like it. This more like I'm just talking to you about something, and other people are. They're kind of just listening into our conversation, which is, which is totally fine, um, and I appreciate them, thanks for watching Um, but it's not like it's. I don't know it's. It's a little bit different and I don't feel like I'm in the. Okay, I'm gonna bring this back. There have been times during our podcast where I'm like oh, you're in your zone, boom, that's it. You're right there in the sweet spot, and y'all probably can identify it because I've seen in the comments. You're like, oh yeah, girl, you better let her cook, right, you know? So it's just like. It's just like it's like.

Desiree Brown: 31:40

It's like that I did not see that comment yeah, this was like the young people say right, like I don't know I've never said that before, but that you're welcome, um, but like when, when it's like in, it's like a certain space, and I really to to I don't the best, I don't know how to describe it, other than sometimes I feel as if the Holy Spirit shows up and is like this is you, but it's like me, and that's the part I find it most when I am in front of people, talking to them, encouraging people, motivating them, getting I don't know them getting getting I don't know it's validating in a sense of oh, I'm saying the right thing at the right time to the right people. I don't think I've experienced that in other ways.

Vernon Brown: 32:32

So so is there in your mind? Is there such a thing as being passionate, or is that just anointing for a moment? And the reason why I ask you that is because through your lens and how you have experienced and defined passion. Does it exist outside of anointing, or are those two the same?

Desiree Brown: 32:53

Wow, I don't Based on what I've said and kind of what I've thought of. I guess it doesn't exist outside of anointing, because I think of, like other people who just have hobbies, I don't know what my hobbies would be at this point. Like you know, my dad loves tennis. You love to travel, I do love to travel, but Is that a passion? Is that a?

Desiree Brown: 33:19

passion Traveling travel, but is that a passion? Is that a passion, traveling? I don't know, because the way I see people who are passionate about a thing is that they're constantly trying to pursue it like as much as possible. I don't know if I'm doing that.

Vernon Brown: 33:35

I think I, I look for opportunities, but I don't think it's like, oh man, like if I don't travel I will and I think that's the point there like, is that because you don't recognize it as important, or feeding you, or because it really doesn't do that?

Desiree Brown: 33:52

I think there's a practicality to it. Okay, I think there's the practicality of this thing I do very much enjoy, but it costs money to do that and it costs time and there's a lot of other things that have to happen around it to make it happen.

Vernon Brown: 34:08

That doesn't change whether you're passionate about it or not. It just changes how often you can do it.

Vernon Brown: 34:14

Like what I'm trying to get to is so there are passions which I think we can loosely define as things that we really enjoy to do. Like I just get life and I just get so filled up by doing these things and the question is, what is that for you? And regardless of means, regardless of whatever, like what is on that list of things to do and if you recognize that that's on that list, maybe when you feel crazy in your head you can go do those things but if you travel, yeah if you don't like think about it as if you don't recognize it as a thing, then you'll never prioritize it that's interesting, I don't know.

Vernon Brown: 34:56

I'm gonna put it on my list because if you don't let me go, you have to put it on my list, cause if you don't let me go, you don't have to put it on your list.

Desiree Brown: 35:01

I'm just. I'm just. If you don't let me go, I'm going to just go. I can't do this.

Vernon Brown: 35:04

Let me go travel I need to catch a flight, yeah, so I mean I do but, but and before I lose it like if you find passion in traveling, then that doesn't have to be overseas. They If you find passion in traveling, then that doesn't have to be overseas. They can just be like, yeah, don't do it for me.

Desiree Brown: 35:25

I'm being very clear. That does not do it for me. It's be to Yazoo, it's not. That ain't it for me, or that?

Vernon Brown: 35:30

could just be to Granada. Or like literally, though Like what I want you to do is to find cheap trips. No, I'm kidding. What I want you to do is like so, if it's traveling like I think traveling is so like high level, like what, what is, what is, what does fulfilling?

Desiree Brown: 35:49

travel, look like for you. Is it culture? Is it food? Is it no, no, legit, like it's. It's culture, it's food. Like I'm very much, I connect with people through their food, through their dance, through their arts. I I enjoy learning about those things and it's kind of in through conversations, if I can speak to, if I can actually communicate with them like I, I want to know about their ways of life and all of those things uh-huh but you know, I don't know that you go into a bluegrass concert Like that's different dance and different music and different culture.

Desiree Brown: 36:25

Yeah, I think I guess it would have to be something. Yeah, that's, that's a point, but I still think I have maybe that's. Maybe that feels too familiar to me. I'm just like I don't like that, but there are things that are maybe a bit different and I think people, especially in other countries and other cultures, express themselves a whole lot differently.

Vernon Brown: 36:53

Heavy metal.

Desiree Brown: 36:55

Have I met them? Heavy metal music? Heavy metal music, that is American. It's a different way to express yourself, correct, and I have experienced it peripherally and I don't like it. So so what I'm saying is can you listen?

Vernon Brown: 37:12

hypocrisy though I.

Desiree Brown: 37:14

I understand hypocrisy. There's some stuff I don't like and there's some stuff I don't know, though well listen I don't think you can say I don't think you're listening.

Desiree Brown: 37:23

listen to this part. All right, thank you this. What I'm saying is I, I can still choose if I like it or if I don't. It's just have. I experienced it okay. Okay that that didn't work for me. I didn't really like that, and it's also very American and I can say I don't like that. I have the experience I've had with it. I'm good, experienced it, great. I'm glad that people enjoy it. Some people enjoy that. But what I'm saying is that there are other, there are other things that are a bit more foreign to me, that I don't have a familiarity with and I'm like let me go see what that's like. And then it's like oh okay, I either really liked that or I really didn't. And then I also think that there's a lot of cultural storytelling and sharing through those activities that are very different in heavy metal. Do you not think that that's true? Yeah, I don't think it's true at all. Do you not think that?

Vernon Brown: 38:18

that's true. Yeah, I don't think it's true at all. Okay, Like I think. I think that you are characterizing something foreign to be not better, but better than something that you think you understand. You have no idea Like you have not given it the time of day.

Desiree Brown: 38:34

Okay, maybe I'll explore.

Vernon Brown: 38:36

And I don't think you can look at someone else's culture peripherally and be like, oh, that's really a cool, but peripherally have no idea what it's all about. That's true. So so for you to say, like I hate heavy metal, like I think perhaps you would find a freedom of expression and just like being able to scream for no reason, and I think you would actually really enjoy that for a time maybe I guess there are things that I am attracted to, that I think some of these things also carry a weight or a spirit with them.

Desiree Brown: 39:25

Go with me, okay. And I think that there are some things that are like like I don't really want to get into it because it feels dark to me.

Vernon Brown: 39:40

Like a lot of african culture yeah but you would happily hop on a flight to learn about their culture more than more than to learn about heavy metal I don't think so.

Desiree Brown: 39:53

I think that I would gravitate towards the things that feel light and feel joyful than the things that feel wicked and weird.

Vernon Brown: 40:01

But if you're on the peripheral, how would you know? Like peripherally, you said I don't like heavy metal. You've never listened to a CD, you've never went to a concert, you've never talked to an artist From peripheral perspective, you've never given it a chance. But if I were to say, hey, let's go to Ghana or some place in Africa that you haven't been to you, if I were to say, hey, let's go to ghana or some place in africa that you haven't been to, you would be have your bags packed before we got home, both peripherally, you have zero clue about anything so how do you reconcile that?

Desiree Brown: 40:34

um because of did you think?

Vernon Brown: 40:37

you know, because I think I know that's that's really.

Desiree Brown: 40:39

If I'm being honest, that's that's think. I know that's that's really. If I'm being honest, that's that's it.

Vernon Brown: 40:42

But that's the. I think one thing is the honesty of that. Another thing is the honesty to recognize that and to be like, okay, no, I probably should give it a chance. And, as you so eloquently said, learning about culture and people and food then that has to be broader than just the six cultures that you premeditatedly think you would agree with yeah, I guess there may be opportunity and growth and going beyond that, and fulfillment, and going beyond that yeah, because you're gonna run out of them six real quick I will say this, a conversation that came up actually yesterday is.

Vernon Brown: 41:23

Was it with me?

Desiree Brown: 41:25

it was um with at work and so um. How do I summarize this? I'm trying to land the plane before I take off.

Desiree Brown: 41:35

okay, there are obviously different communities in our in our country. There are people from a variety of different backgrounds, cultures, all of that stuff. It's like it's it could be found right here in the U? S and.

Desiree Brown: 41:54

But there is a beautiful skill that some have to actually go in, with or without their assumptions. They go in and they go and experience for it, for what it is, and then, if there were assumptions, those assumptions will either be confirmed or challenged based on the experience. Or, if there were no assumptions, they would just through the experience experience of just experiencing they would be able to, like have an understanding. I think that's a really powerful skill and a very powerful tool because, um, I think the work, just a lot of the things we do, and even the things that we do through work we oftentimes go into places thinking like, okay, I know these things and I'm going to present to you these things, and you tell me what of these things you want to do, where it's a different approach to go into a place, just watch, just observe, just take in, see how things are done and then ask the question of what do you need versus this is what I have.

Vernon Brown: 43:04

Okay.

Desiree Brown: 43:05

And so I um, have been, I, I, I admire that and I think it's something that I want to learn to do more of not coming in just kind of as the expert, um, or with my assumptions that I have. Quite frankly, when you really get in there, you're like, oh shoot, I don't know nothing, and so I think maybe that's probably to your point. It's like just like, go in as a person of, just a person of who wants to be curious and wants to understand and wants to learn, versus all right, I already got my assumptions in my head, this is what this already is. So I say all that to say, I see your point and I think that I would like to do more of that.

Vernon Brown: 43:52

It would be so much easier just to say you're right, yeah, I'm sorry okay so, um, continuing on, but so so travel, travel.

Desiree Brown: 44:08

What she's gonna blow by that? Yes, you're right, babe. So travel is one of those things before we. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead go ahead.

Vernon Brown: 44:17

Go ahead before we move on. Um, I think I think you've made a beautiful connection there between the two otherwise completely separate passions you're considering of travel and speaking. Travel which boils down to more curiosity in its purest form, and speaking, which more boils down to just kind of like communicating ideas and thoughts, but together you become like a super speaker, to be able to go into a room with prepared content but not really understanding who's there, kind of using context clues to understand who's in the room, what they may be needing, and to then deliver with that new knowledge. I think those two things are very tied together, yeah.

Desiree Brown: 45:04

That's cool. I think that'd be really interesting. I probably need to change some of the way I travel. Well, I guess for some time, for some reasons or for some, there are reasons why sometimes you're just going on vacation, you're like I just need a beach and some fun, like that's it. Then there's other times where you're like on vacation, you're like I just need a beach and some fun, like that's it. Then there's other times where you're like okay, I want to get to know the people.

Vernon Brown: 45:26

I want to be curious.

Desiree Brown: 45:28

I want to um, why is this important here? Um, oh, that's different. We don't do that. Why are people doing that? What are they doing and where's this come from? Yeah, so I think there there are two different. There are different ways or different reasons why travel is really cool, um, and then also exposure to things that you just aren't exposed to here good, better and different. Um, it helps you to by here here in the US, here in my, I guess, in my community, and the things that I'm, that I'm in my bubble of my community. So the here cause. I saw your frustration when I described here, I mean here in what is familiar to me, that's not what you meant.

Vernon Brown: 46:24

That's what you're re-communicating it, as what you meant was here in the US.

Desiree Brown: 46:28

That's what I meant is you were here in the US, but to your point, there are cultures and differences here in the US that I also need to stop blanketing like, oh yes, everybody's kind of like me here, but that's a complete fallacy. I know that that's not true. So there are things I can explore, even here vocally, like in the state that we live in other states, in different parts of different regions and parts of the country.

Desiree Brown: 46:59

Yes, that too can happen. I often overlook it because I'm like, oh, I'm familiar with that, but I'm actually not. There's so much more. I haven't just like two-thirds that I haven't even been to doesn't even reflect the majority of the country correct, but I've also been outside of the state that is also true. So I would and I have do have a deeper appreciation for different ways these days, but I do Because I've realized like, oh well, because even being here in Canton, mississippi, is a lot different than home, home being Atlanta.

Vernon Brown: 47:36

And there are more Cantons than Atlantans.

Desiree Brown: 47:38

Way more Cantons than Atlanta, or not even Cantons. Justantans Way more Cantons than Atlanta, or not even Cantons. Just different, just different towns, different different cities or whatever. They have their own thing. Um, I and I've learned to appreciate the um, the smaller town, and like what that, what that is, and how that experience is different than the big city, the hustle, the bustle, even though Atlanta is, like, technically, one of the smaller of the big cities. So, um, yeah, so we'll talk, we'll say travel, we'll put that on the list. Um, we talked about speaking, but I enjoy dancing, that's, that's a thing for me is that a passion?

Desiree Brown: 48:26

um, I don't know. I've still struggled with that word, right we've made no progress um, I don't know, I enjoy it.

Desiree Brown: 48:42

Okay, I was trying to name the other things I enjoy because that's how we got on travel, or you told me about travel because I was like, oh yeah, I do enjoy that. So, travel dancing, um, food like I don't even cook, like that though, but I enjoy like I don't know how to describe it. There's flavors, but then they come from different places and oftentimes inform like what's put into the particular recipe because it comes from a different place. I think that's kind of cool. Um, just origin stories of the food and how it got there, whatever.

Vernon Brown: 49:22

So you got passions. Oh, you're out here talking about you. Ain't got no passions.

Desiree Brown: 49:26

I thought these were just interests, like things. I just like I would never describe them as passions. Can I describe some more things? Painting, I do like doing that, but I don't. Painting as you I do like doing that but I don't. Yeah, that's like very much a bud, like I don't. I haven't flourished in that at all. But you know a good outline. I like painting inside the lines. But then I've also had some blank canvases where I had to like create it from nothing and that is a challenge and it's also really cool. I kind of like the creative process of it. What am I forgetting? I also really enjoy like our family and I, like you and our kids are just amazing. So I enjoy spending time and creating memories and having laughs and all that kind of stuff. But I also am not a creator of memories. I'm not like the Christmas mom that's going to put up 15 Christmas trees and like I just want this to be a thing, or like I don't do that. But the things that we do do together, I enjoy that.

Desiree Brown: 50:40

Some of them are vacations out the country even though our kids were talking about our trip when we went up to delaware and virginia, they were talking about, uh, jolly rogers, and they were like, oh, mom, remember when we went there or and we went swimming and we went to the amusement park and we went to the beach, like and I'm surprised because they remembered it and they were recounting it and how much they enjoyed it and I'm like, oh, that was really cool, maybe I should do some more delaware. Imagine that imagine that inside the country inside the country. Who knew you?

Vernon Brown: 51:21

make me so tired.

Desiree Brown: 51:22

Are you tired? You want in the episode?

Vernon Brown: 51:25

it's up to you what other passions do you have? I'm done you sure, yeah.

Desiree Brown: 51:32

Do you have others other than teaching? Not that I can think of no hobbies. Are there things that used to be that are no longer?

Vernon Brown: 51:49

yeah, I mean, since you know got married life ended it just began, baby whatever no, not really. I mean, I don't do much like it used to be photography. You used to like taking pictures of everything. That's like a whole episode. We will call that dead passions oh stop, is it really dead?

Desiree Brown: 52:13

you think it's not dead.

Vernon Brown: 52:14

It's just what I enjoy, is difficult, is more complicated.

Desiree Brown: 52:21

I think doing it for the joy of it is one thing, doing it for the work of it is a whole other thing. Yeah, you want to dig into that part.

Vernon Brown: 52:30

No, it's a long conversation yeah.

Desiree Brown: 52:34

All right, I think we're at the end. Thank you all for joining us for this conversation at the well. We hope that you will tell us about your passions in the comments. This is a really roundabout way of like talking about this. I don't know if I really have identified my passions or not, or if they're just interests but y'all think her passion yeah, she got any passions do? Do I have passions? Am I just like interested in stuff?

Vernon Brown: 53:02

Is she just like a dead fish?

Desiree Brown: 53:04

A dead fish. No, I don't think I'm a dead fish by any means, but I do think that I think my just like my personality, I just have like I just it's not, it's not like focused in on the one thing, there are other, there are things, there are various things that I'm interested in, and I think that's okay. I think it makes for good conversations. Hmm, okay, you can only talk about one thing. That's just like a one track, right, that's true, I'm a pretty boring person.

Desiree Brown: 53:39

You can talk about a lot of things. Anyway, thank you for joining us. We hope that you would like subscribe, share our podcast and we will see you the next episode Get the well.