Desireè Brown: 0:01

Testing, testing One, two, three. Can you hear me in the microphone? Cool, I think we're good. Does it feel good to be back in the chair?

Vernon Brown: 0:16

Uh-huh Testing.

Desireè Brown: 0:20

Cool, cool. So we're already recording. Yep, all right, you want to? Let's pray. Father god, we thank you for bringing us back here to the table, bringing us back here to the set and just allowing us to be together, have conversations and to dive deeper into one another's world and understanding of one another, and also just to be able to share that with others. We pray, god, that you will continue to bless this podcast, continue to share it with many, and we pray, god, that you will be glorified in all of it. In Jesus name, we pray Amen. I can start it off, I suppose.

Desireè Brown: 1:15

Sure and then we'll jump in. All right, here we go. Hello, hey, and welcome to conversations at the well. Desiree Brown, and this is my amazing husband, what's? My name Vernon Brown and we are so glad to be back here. This is season.

Vernon Brown: 1:53

Two, two. We made it through a season, y'all we made it through a season, we made it.

Desireè Brown: 1:57

We made it through a season. It's kind of crazy because we ended last season on episode 20.

Vernon Brown: 2:03

Was it? It was episode 20? Was it it was episode 20?

Desireè Brown: 2:07

oh my, gosh, I don't even know how you know that.

Vernon Brown: 2:08

I just post them, yeah I, I looked, I looked today and I was like oh wow, we did 20 episodes, but that is.

Desireè Brown: 2:12

That in and of itself is pretty crazy. When did we start?

Vernon Brown: 2:15

was it? It wasn't january, was it?

Desireè Brown: 2:16

um no, I think it was kind of just a random mid-year kind of thing so we, we, we did some things, and so we're we're really looking forward to continuing our conversations with you all, with one another, and uh, yeah, I think we need to go ahead and just hop in ready?

Vernon Brown: 2:34

yeah, let's do it. Get started for this year. Yeah, let's do it.

Desireè Brown: 2:39

um, so one thing that I didn't do to prime this episode and I probably should just do it right now and that is to tell you all that we are going to be talking about just a recap of everything that happened. Well, maybe not everything. We can't tell you everything, but just some of the highlights that happened in 2024 things that we, what, what? What was 2024 about?

Vernon Brown: 3:07

Yeah, yeah.

Desireè Brown: 3:08

And then we can move into this year 2025.

Vernon Brown: 3:11

That might need to be a separate episode.

Desireè Brown: 3:12

Yeah, Because that's going to be a lot. It is going to be a lot, so for this episode.

Vernon Brown: 3:15

We're talking about 2024.

Desireè Brown: 3:17

Yes.

Vernon Brown: 3:17

What happened, our wins, our losses, and maybe tease a little bit about what we're expecting for 2025.

Desireè Brown: 3:23

Yeah, boom Sounds good to me. All right, so Vernon.

Vernon Brown: 3:28

No, no, no, no, no, wait, wait. How are you going to ask me the first question?

Desireè Brown: 3:31

I just was just saying hi.

Vernon Brown: 3:33

Oh, okay, go ahead.

Desireè Brown: 3:35

Hi, how you doing today. I'm doing good.

Vernon Brown: 3:37

How are you?

Desireè Brown: 3:38

I'm doing really good, yeah, I'm feeling, feeling good, um, yeah. So I mean I have no complaints at this point right now, but I don't know, I mean, we've been, we've been. Really this year has already started off like full throttle.

Vernon Brown: 3:53

Yeah, and you ditched them for like the last two months of last year.

Desireè Brown: 3:56

I did. I did I mean it was not intentional Really to do a few more episodes before the end of the year. We were traveling and yeah a whole lot yeah yeah, I think um, I don't even remember if the if it was last before my mom had her surgery like it was just a lot of things going on happening.

Vernon Brown: 4:15

It kept happening, yeah happening.

Desireè Brown: 4:17

And so we're happening, yeah, happening so life did what it did and here we are, but now we have, uh, entire 20 episodes that we completed. We're here in 2025 now and we're ready to get started and just like introduce some new things in this year. So I you told me not to ask the first question, so I'm going to turn it over to you so you can direct how you want to direct.

Vernon Brown: 4:42

So, first and foremost, I think it's a great and difficult question to ask. If you had to sum up 2024 in one maximum three words okay, it can either be a phrase or they can be completely different how would you do that? I think the first word for me while you're thinking about it would probably be usually I'm able to like, think of something, but let's see 2024. Um, I think.

Desireè Brown: 5:23

Well, I have four words oh, man, are you breaking your rules?

Vernon Brown: 5:26

but it's a phrase, I would say well, five words, finding value in weird places finding value in weird places yeah okay, let's expand on that? Well, first of all, when I say that, does that make sense? Is it like oh yeah, I can see that. Are you like? What the heck is he talking?

Vernon Brown: 5:42

no, I don't know what you're talking about well, well, for me, like when we we were writing down some of the things that were most not impactful, but the things that that kind of jarred us or hit us most or were really important to us, and I know for me it was like a list of weird stuff and not not weird from the perspective of like anybody else wouldn't be excited about it but just for who I am yeah, go ahead, go ahead, and what I?

Vernon Brown: 6:08

usually like want to accomplish. It was just different and weird stuff. So, for example, um, we, we have this little um, this little program, not program. What do you call it? Like journal journal? Yeah, we, we found this journal at um open invitation stationery here in canton and it's really really awesome because it helps you guide your reflection on the year before and then also set your tone for the year going forward. And one of the questions they had was what was not, what was what was the question? Do you remember? No, it was like what was one of your major wins or what was something that you saw to be really impactful. And, as I thought about this year, usually it would be things like business or customers or money and things like that.

Vernon Brown: 6:50

But probably the thing that I'm most proud of over last year was we had hosted or planned or kicked off, or what do you want to call vacation Bible school at our, at our church, and it was something that probably was pretty low on my priority list.

Vernon Brown: 7:02

Like, I mean, vacation Bible School. We all had it and you know different people had different experiences, but you know it was really pushed by one of our friends who you know really kind of got in there and said no, no, no, it needs to be better, it needs to be bigger, it needs to be more exciting. And just to sit back and see all of the kids so excited about learning, so excited about, you know, talking about God, the full armor of God, and all of that stuff, I was just kind of surprised at how impactful that was to me, because it was just, I don't know, it was just refreshing to see kids in that environment where, you know, I think a lot of us, if we're honest, would say, when you're growing up in church or when you're going up going through things, you're kind of going through the motions, you're kind of just doing what's necessary, but to see them actually excited and running around and enjoying and learning and, you know, really thirsty for the word and the things that we were teaching them, to me that was like, really impactful and I think that was surprising. So I think for me, as I look back on 2024, finding value in strange places, weird places what did I say? Weird places?

Desireè Brown: 8:00

Yeah.

Vernon Brown: 8:00

For me because I would usually look over here, but a lot of the value we found was over there.

Desireè Brown: 8:05

Well, I get that and I think that that's a really good example.

Vernon Brown: 8:08

I'm about to shoot down my answer.

Desireè Brown: 8:09

No, I think that that's. I think that that's one thing, but can you share, like another example, because I think people are like why is that weird? That doesn't, that's not. That's not weird, it's weird for me. Well, give us another example and also give us, like, maybe, why you thought it was weird.

Vernon Brown: 8:40

Expect to find value would be how much money we made and how many customers came through the door and those things were great and we're appreciative of those things. But but I think what was in most impactful was just finding out how much, how, how much people suffer in silence, and what I mean by that is like the women come in or the people come in. I should say they come in, they smile.

Vernon Brown: 9:08

I usually try to greet them at the front door, give them a once over to see you know how you really doing and all of that and so many people are just like, yeah, I'm doing great, I'm doing fine, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, and they would just continue walking if you didn't ask them another question, if you didn't dive any deeper. And when you take the time to do so, you find out that people are going through some crazy stuff. They have a lot of things on their shoulders and a lot of things and burdens that they're carrying. And if you are complacent or comfortable with just the first answer of I'm doing fine, people can go and live life suffering through some of the most difficult things, and no one else would know the difference. Even more so than that, it will will. People will like they'll come consistently and then they'll drop off the face of the earth for like a week or two weeks.

Vernon Brown: 9:53

And what I've been trying to do this year is a better job of just reaching out to them and saying, hey, you know, you know not come back to class, come back, give us some more money, but rather come. Hey, what's going on in your life? You had a cadence going on here. This is different and you know, we just want to check in to see how you are doing. You know, if you just life just got busy, cool.

Vernon Brown: 10:14

But sometimes, a lot of times, what we found is that when their habits change, things are going on in their life, and the more I've sent those messages and the more I've talked with some of our members, it's like, wait, somebody died, or wait, you're dealing with mental health issues, or wait, something crazy has come up in your life. And so I think, when we're talking about finding value in weird places, it's being able to impact people's lives in a way where you just wouldn't expect. I think it's standard for a business to want money, but it's not so standard for a business to care enough to want to recognize well, recognize what's going on with you.

Vernon Brown: 10:45

Is there something you want to talk about, or just giving someone something that can really brighten their day? I think it's gone a long way.

Desireè Brown: 10:50

Yeah, is that a better answer for you? It's a much better answer, actually. And again, hopefully the audience agrees with that.

Vernon Brown: 10:56

They don't agree with you.

Desireè Brown: 10:57

But I think, what well? What I'm hearing is that, although the I guess initial intent was to set out for more measurable goals, things like financial goals, maybe you know headcounts, maybe engagement- we talked about that a little, that word engagement, but we talked about that. But what we found was greater purpose in what we're doing.

Vernon Brown: 11:23

Yeah, and I think we set out for greater purpose, but I'm just not sure, I don't know. It's still surprising like and it's still, it's, it's, it's um.

Vernon Brown: 11:37

I don't use the word saddening, but it's um it's. I just use the word weird, because that's my cop-out word. It's weird to look in the eyes of people. It's saddening. It's weird to look in the eyes of people that you've built a relationship with or that you've grown to care about and to realize that a lot of them have no one. They have no one to just check on them and be like hey, how's it going? What's going on? No one to talk to, no one who just wants to talk to them. And I think you know if, if we can give people an opportunity to be seen. I don't know, I just think it's really impactful and it's something that I think we set out to do, but I'm just not sure that we recognize it. It would be at the level that it is Not to blow it up more than it is, but just to say I don't think we recognize it would have the impact in people's lives that we've been able to have.

Desireè Brown: 12:31

Does that make sense? I agree, I agree. I think we did set out to have purpose, but I think the purpose became more defined in the last year. What do I mean by that?

Vernon Brown: 12:49

No, you've been open a year and a half.

Desireè Brown: 12:52

Okay, a year and a half yeah.

Vernon Brown: 12:54

But I'm just saying like it's. I think we're still figuring out what it is Like. There are plans and there are things that are written, but it's kind of telling us what it needs to be over time.

Desireè Brown: 13:05

Exactly, exactly, exactly, and so we experienced a lot of. We experienced some growth in 2024, and I think that's kind of standard. Like year to year, you should have some level of growth. But we experienced growth in the business, for sure, and also like the things that are a part of the business but not really the, it's not the business as far as like the, the numbers, it's the impact and experience that growth. So, yeah, I, I understand that and I get it, and that actually is maybe my word or words.

Vernon Brown: 13:40

Don't be stealing my words. It's growth, but it was growth under her pressure and and yeah, you didn't go under, go over, you went over.

Desireè Brown: 13:50

So I think, growth under pressure, or growth maybe, not pressure Maybe that's not the right word, it was just stress, stress, stress stress would be a good um growth under stress, I don't't know, but we'll just say under.

Desireè Brown: 14:05

We'll say under pressure, okay, um. And for me, um, I I felt like I was met with more personal challenges in 2024 than I remember in recent years, and I mean that came from um, that came from a number of different directions. Some of them were related to how people see me or perceive me in the world, which made me reflect on. Who do I see myself, as is the? Is the assessment that other people have of me? Is that actually true, or is that, or is that colored by their experience, or what have you? I could go into it in more detail, but we'll just leave it there for now, unless you ask the question. And then and I think that there were also some um, y'all know that I went through my kind of why am I doing these things? Kind of experience, like really reflecting on what, like with all the things that I had going on and on my plate, like why, what is the purpose, what is the purpose?

Vernon Brown: 15:35

And I think that that reflection really made me be more conscious about what I'm doing, how I'm spending my time, and made me really pull back on a lot of different things. Do you think those two things are attached? And what I mean is, on one hand, you talked about why am I doing this stuff, like is it even valuable or worthwhile. You talked about why am I doing this stuff, like is it even valuable or worthwhile, and then, on the other hand, it's how are people perceiving what it is that I'm doing? Is that positive, negative, true or false? And do you think those two things are combined? Because one could say that if you have a true vision on what you're doing and why, then maybe others' opinions of what you're doing don't really matter as much, because you know you're what and and you know you're. Why do you think those are attached or separate?

Desireè Brown: 16:07

Yeah, I think all of it was. I feel like all of that. All that happened last year was to challenge me to just think like, think about what are you doing, why are you doing it? And I'm skipping ahead. But that means for this year, that means I've made some changes based on the, based on things that happened last year, where I am being more intentional about the things that I'm choosing to do, intentional about the things that I'm choosing to do, how I'm choosing to do it, why I'm choosing to do it. And I won't say that's in everything, because my, my, I guess my baseline is to just be like but, excuse me, but that was really challenged because I found myself just like feeling like I was spinning wheels and going nowhere, not to say that I was going nowhere, but it was just like it felt that way. So, yeah, I think all, I think it was all, I think all of those things came up in that timing for a reason.

Vernon Brown: 17:18

Okay, so growth under pressure, duress, stress, whatever you want to put in there and yeah. And then value in weird places. Yeah, so was the year good, because those kind of sound.

Desireè Brown: 17:30

Yeah, I mean it's funny because if I reflect on the year, it wasn't a bad year. It wasn't like I would stamp that like, oh, file it away, never want to go back, kind of a year.

Desireè Brown: 17:40

But it was just like a growth for me anyway, just the process of growing is not comfortable, like it's going to make you uneasy, it's going to make you question, it's going to make you um, stress sometimes, but that is, I mean, that's just like the process of it. And so I'm grateful for those experiences because I think I've come into this year with a lot more clarity and a lot more, or at least some direction, where I don't think I came into the 24 with that same level of clarity or direction.

Desireè Brown: 18:14

I was just kind of like all right let's just ride it out and see what happens. And boy did it happen. So no, I wouldn't say that it was a bad year. So no, I wouldn't say that it was a bad year. I'm grateful for even the challenges, because I think that the challenges help you to learn quicker.

Vernon Brown: 18:34

Yeah, yeah, you know why can't we learn through easy stuff.

Desireè Brown: 18:36

I don't know. I would really really like that I think. I think that would be like ideal. I think that would be like ideal. But it's just like when stuff, when it stings, when it hurts, when it makes you uncomfortable, you're, you remember that thing a whole lot better than if you just kind of coasting.

Vernon Brown: 18:52

Yeah, yeah, I think for me, 2024 was so weird, like it wasn't. It wasn't a bad year, but it wasn't like a stair-step year. It was kind of like a sidestep in my eyes, although I do feel like there was a lot of growth that happened, but it wasn't growth in ways that I recognize. So it's like, eh, does that make sense?

Desireè Brown: 19:16

It wasn't growth in numbers, yeah, even though that did happen though. Yeah, but I don't know. It was like, eh, like did happen though.

Vernon Brown: 19:24

Yeah, but it I don't know. It was like, like it was good, but it was like yeah yeah, I think it was a preparation year maybe I don't like those well I think they're necessary.

Desireè Brown: 19:38

I was gonna say you gotta, you can't, you can't, you can't, walk till you crawl, you can't. Or I should say you can't, walk till you crawl, you can't. Or I should say you can't, run till you walk.

Vernon Brown: 19:47

Can't walk till you run. Okay, you can go from crawling to running.

Desireè Brown: 19:50

But I do think that there was a process that both of us were going through at the same time to kind of prep us and prime us for whatever is coming. Lord, help us lord, help us.

Vernon Brown: 20:09

So. So, with that in mind, yeah, if you had to. I don't want to say judge, or I don't want to say the word judge, but if you had to blank my 2024, how would you do that? I just blanked like describe, judge whatever, whatever word you want to speak into how I view 2024. What would that be, if anything you may be like, like I was or like I am um, how would I describe 2024 from for you, or if it would be helpful? I can do you first um so?

Vernon Brown: 20:47

I would say I would say, um, I think 2024 for you was, was, was almost like yes. So in the Bible a prophet has a servant and the prophet and the servant are surrounded by their enemies and they're like on every side, and the servant is like oh my gosh, what are we going to do?

Vernon Brown: 21:17

And the prophet prays and says open his eyes so he can see.

Vernon Brown: 21:21

And then so God, or the Holy Spirit, opens his eyes and he can see that, although they are surrounded, their enemies are surrounded by angels who can protect them and fight for them and fight their battles.

Vernon Brown: 21:31

And I think, for you, 2024 was a lot of that eye-opening process to say this is what is really happening, or this is how you're spending your time, or this is what you're doing, or this is how you're impacting the world, which is great that your eyes are opened.

Vernon Brown: 21:49

But I think what we often miss in that story is that there's still a time where, okay, I can see this, but what am I going to do next? Am I going to go back to worrying as soon as the enemies, who are natural, start walking towards me, or am I going to have faith that the angels surrounding are going to fight the battles? And so I think, now that your eyes have been opened, the question is now for 2025, like, what are you going to do about it? Like, are you going to with with having the knowledge that you have still do the same thing? Are you going to go do different things, or you know, I think the the opportunities are just endless. It's just a matter of OK. Now, with your knowledge and what you've seen and been exposed to, how does that impact what you do next?

Desireè Brown: 22:39

Yeah, does that make sense? It does it does I mean? I guess it's to be seen. I know what my intention is. My intention is to walk forward with faith, because I think God has he's showed me himself so many ways and it's about time that I start believing him, you know. So I think I've been at least with the first few days of 2025. I think that I have approached it in that way. Um, I have literally took, like when worry began to my baseline worry when that started to roll up, or you know, I'm starting to uh, and then it was like, no, no, what did I say? Believe it. And then I continue on forward with a different faith, or not a different faith, like just with faith, and I continue forward with like just trusting God in a way that I haven't fully embraced before, and so it's been working out pretty well for me. Now that I've said that out loud, I feel like I'm about to get another challenge but you know that is my intention, that's what I'm moving forward with.

Desireè Brown: 23:45

And then I think for you I mean the word that came to mind and I think I'm going to have to explain this is reckoning. Reckoning what I mean by that.

Vernon Brown: 23:58

Sounds really negative.

Desireè Brown: 23:59

No, no, no no, no, no, it's not a bad thing.

Desireè Brown: 24:06

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't it's not a bad thing. But I think it's just you coming maybe similar, maybe maybe in a similar way that you were describing for me, but you coming into the realization that you know you can, by the numbers, you can be extremely successful, you are very successful by the numbers, but your purpose extends far beyond that, and so I think you're beginning to see that more and see how those are not the only, that's not the only measurement, that's not the only thing that shows progress. If you can't measure it, you're very uncomfortable with it being like something Like you're uncomfortable If you can't measure it. You're like, does it count? But it counts, and I think you're beginning to see that and recognize that it doesn't exclude or diminish the measurable things. It just says that, yeah, that's one thing, but more and more and I think that this year kind of did that for you, just in the things that were most impactful to you, the things that you described- I think there's two ways to look at that, though.

Vernon Brown: 25:31

Okay, it could be like yay, I understand now. Or it could be that nothing measurable happens, so this is what I resort to, or this is the only thing I have left.

Desireè Brown: 25:41

But I mean, you literally came up with a by the numbers end of the year, like review of the business which was amazing.

Desireè Brown: 25:49

So it's not that nothing happened. It's not that there wasn't success that was actually measurable. It's just that okay, that was good and this was the most impactful though this is the thing I cannot measure. There's no way for me to know how much, um, you know me showing love to people and reaching out to them and just kind of digging a little bit deeper and asking a few more questions and giving to them in a time where they were just like feeling really down or really overwhelmed or just really sad or whatever you, you, there's no way to quantify that quantify that, but that meant the most in the last year.

Desireè Brown: 26:32

So it was a reckoning of uh, yes, of yes, that matters and got you. Does that make sense?

Desireè Brown: 26:52

it does it doesn't no, it makes sense I don't like it, but it makes sense, um, but yeah, that's, that would be how I would describe it Gotcha, okay, but for you, I mean, I don't know, did you leave 2024 with? I would imagine you did, but what? Okay, let me just ask the question what was your biggest lesson learned? Like, what are you taking from 24? And like, okay, I'm moving forward with this beautiful gym, or gyms?

Vernon Brown: 27:31

they're gyms, lessons learned, lessons learned. Let me think. I don't know. Am I missing a gym? Probably like 2024 was.

Desireè Brown: 27:46

Was am I missing a?

Vernon Brown: 27:47

gem, probably Like 2024 was. In my opinion, if 2024 happened or didn't happen, it's like you know, to me it's not it's. It's like Jenga 2024 wasn't one of the blocks you plucked and it's like, oh, that one will come out easy and you pull it out.

Desireè Brown: 28:10

That was easy for you.

Vernon Brown: 28:11

Not, not not from the perspective of easy, but from the perspective of how it, in my opinion, from the perspective of um, how it, in my opinion, how it impacted the structural soundness of the structure we call life. It was like and nothing swayed or moved, if that makes sense huh, interesting. That is a weird assessment, because I'm like, I think I think, I think it through, I think it on the because there were, there was nothing that was like big or momentous or like super shifting.

Desireè Brown: 28:47

Oh, because there was a lot of big, momentous and super shifting things for me.

Vernon Brown: 28:51

You just don't look at it the same way that I do, like, I mean, we our life has been kind of crazy and I don't think there was much like crazy, like we would define as crazy. Do you disagree?

Desireè Brown: 29:03

Oh yes.

Vernon Brown: 29:04

Like I mean, there was a year where you moved from your hometown to a different place. There was a year where, like you bought a wreck.

Desireè Brown: 29:12

Like yeah, that was the same year, there was nothing like that, that kind of happened.

Desireè Brown: 29:16

Well, for me. Okay, going back to the jenga analogy, so so is it a? Is it a loose block for you or was it like you pulled it out and it was like, oh, it shook for me, oh yeah, you were shaking, I was shaking, but I think for for you think I was shaking, I know okay, but I think that we view things differently. So, using the same analogy, you're like oh, you just flick that block out, like you know the middle one, you pluck.

Vernon Brown: 29:45

No, I get it, I'm going, we're going with the analogy you lose Jenga all the time, so I wasn't sure if you knew the strategy. But I also win all the time too, so so there is.

Desireè Brown: 29:56

So I actually really like that analogy because, even though you didn't feel like it changed the structural soundness of it, any block you move changes the structural soundness of the structure. So you may not have maybe felt it in a big way, but every other move is based on that one block moving.

Vernon Brown: 30:25

What I think I hear you saying is like if you take out the middle block, the side blocks became more important and it impacts you in the future, but maybe not now.

Desireè Brown: 30:33

It's not seen yet how this past year will impact you. Do you think I'm wrong About the structural, about that?

Vernon Brown: 30:42

analogy and like for me the year being.

Desireè Brown: 30:45

I think it's just telling of your personality, because I think that there were some really big things that happened and we are still we're actually feeling some of the impact of that stuff now. So the blocks are still moving and it's like, okay, well, how is this going to work out? You know, so, I think you maybe haven't put a lot of you didn't put a lot of emphasis on it, but I think it was more impactful and it's to be seen how impactful those things were. Okay now, okay so, or as we continue on through this year and into as many years as the Lord decides to bless us with, so, um, yeah, I don't know, because for me, I mean, oh, my gosh, like I felt, like I went through the ringer, I do because relationships are very important to me and a lot of relationships last year changed or they became just a little.

Desireè Brown: 31:47

Yeah, well, changed. It's like they came different. That's the same thing as changing. That's redundant, but yeah, things are different. I mean we haven't even talked about it like on this episode, but I mean we came to Canton with two things that we felt that God was guiding us towards.

Vernon Brown: 32:06

Right.

Desireè Brown: 32:07

The two things were helping to build the church that we were a part of and then to start the well. So we came here, we did both, but one of those things is very different. Now I'm gonna go ahead and say it.

Desireè Brown: 32:23

we are no longer there at the church, yeah so I mean that's huge for me, yeah, for me. So now I'm like, god, what is what? What's happening now? Like, where are we now and what? What does this change mean? And where, like the do we do? Are we staying here? Are we now and what? What does this change mean? And where, like do we? Are we staying here? We go on, like what's what's happening, god do you?

Desireè Brown: 32:45

I feel like there's um preparation and foundations being laid, um, or maybe the foundations already have been laid and we're just still in the building process. But where, where are we building now? What's happening? And so I felt like that was a shakeup. I felt like so I mentioned that my mom had her surgery and I felt like that was a reckoning for me.

Desireè Brown: 33:11

Reckoning again where it's just the reminder, like I'm their only child and they are, they're getting older and things are changing. And it made me think like, okay, like how does this dynamic play out? We're here, they're there. Like, what is, what is this looking like? And how do I support them from a distance? Um, if I'm still here, you know what? What are you going to move us closer? I don't know. I have no idea how that's going to play out. But those things have have changed.

Desireè Brown: 33:45

And then just the, with us leaving the church, some of the relationships at the church changed For a number of reasons. For a number of reasons, reasons, and so, yeah, I mean I was, I was, um, not exactly like happy about all of those things, because I, I, I, I love the, I love the people, I love the church, um, and it changed and it's, it's still, it's still changed, it's still changed, it's different. And the clarity that I had for us doing that, coming here and helping to do that work, I also had the same level of clarity that it was time for us to leave. But I don't have a level of clarity as to where we're going now or what we're going to do now, next.

Vernon Brown: 34:44

But I do have the experience with god to know that he'll make that clear too and so I and I guess you're right that we we look through things differently, because to me that means I can kick up my feet and relax and like.

Desireè Brown: 35:00

I think, I think, if you are from the perspective of God's done with you, then, yes, that makes sense.

Vernon Brown: 35:13

I don't know if I agree with that one why you say it like that?

Desireè Brown: 35:17

because I want you to explain why you don't agree, okay, no, because it's like I agree with that one.

Vernon Brown: 35:20

Okay, why you say it like that? Because I want you to explain why you don't agree. Okay, okay, no, because it's like well, I guess you're not wrong, but it's kind of like okay, well, I mean, I've task one task, whatever, complete, but with the understanding that God doesn't just want to.

Desireè Brown: 35:38

He's not a. That's not exactly, especially if you did the task right, if you completed the task, it's not like oh yeah, you're done, let me show you over here. It's like okay, you completed that. That's level one, let's go to next level.

Vernon Brown: 35:51

That's true, it would be kind of nice though.

Desireè Brown: 35:59

It's like, hey, relax, you just ride it out, I mean, but I do think it is a season of rest for us. I mean, I do think that that's true and I think enjoy it. I think we should like be taking the time to actually enjoy on sundays we've been doing a little bit of that no, you've been having us go to church yeah, but you haven't been waking up at 4 am to prep and all of that stuff.

Vernon Brown: 36:16

That's true so.

Desireè Brown: 36:17

So it's different. That's true, yeah, that's very true. So it's a season. I do think it's a season of rest, but I think that the rest seasons come because there's more work that's following. So I do think we enjoy it. I think we kind of yeah, I think we just enjoy the ride, and actually that's what I got in prayer, maybe the end, probably the end, of last year. It's like this is a season of rest, like you've been having your hands on the steering wheel. You're not even the driver, though. Like, get your hands off the steering wheel, let me drive. Not get in the trunk, but get in the backseat and don't try to tell me where to go. That's what god basically told me. Like, don't be a backseat driver, I just need you to.

Desireè Brown: 37:04

I knew he and I were aligned yeah, well, yes, but just like, enjoy the ride. What I heard very clearly is I, I need you, I want you to enjoy the ride, and I thought about that a lot because I was like, what does it mean to enjoy the ride?

Vernon Brown: 37:20

the ride.

Desireè Brown: 37:20

I'm so like, yeah, like that, you're clearly not enjoying it yeah, like you're clearly not enjoying if you're paying so much attention to what what the driver's doing or should be doing yes, and God didn't even put me in the passenger seat. He was like get in the back seat, and so that's almost like I guess it doesn't mean this. It doesn't mean this Hush, let me finish. So it's not like being in a passenger seat is almost like a co-navigator right, like you.

Vernon Brown: 37:53

Still, you think your opinion matters. Am I? I'm sorry.

Desireè Brown: 37:58

We're about to fight on this podcast.

Vernon Brown: 37:59

Go ahead.

Desireè Brown: 38:00

I'm sorry on this podcast go ahead, I'm sorry. So you, you still kind of have some responsibilities in the passenger seat, give or take, depending on who would drive, who's driving and um you know my passenger always sleep your passenger is not always your passenger. You still always sleep. But then you get mad because you're like I'm over here driving, you sleep and I'm like Hit a right turn.

Vernon Brown: 38:21

Open your door.

Desireè Brown: 38:22

But now that I'm in the backseat God has put me in the backseat I'm like, oh, I can take a nap, I can rest. I don't need to be paying attention to the signs and the, the warning things in the street, whatever All the things that happen when you're driving. That's not my role right now. My role is to simply enjoy, um, my role is to, uh, you know, maybe maybe think, maybe read, maybe just like, do some things that are leisurely. And for any other people that get into the car too which he said, you know, we'll make some stops along the way, though People that people that'll get in um and enjoy, enjoy that too. So I don't know what all that means, and so it'll be interesting to see, maybe at the end of this year, reflecting on that.

Vernon Brown: 39:12

Yeah, I think it's just kind of like, you know, just taking a season to sit on the beach with your laptop and just relax.

Desireè Brown: 39:18

Maybe, maybe when we going. I walked into that one you did.

Vernon Brown: 39:24

Okay, so yeah, so you don't think you have any big lessons learned from 2020? I mean, well, I think there are lessons, but like so one lesson would be. There's some lessons, I just don't remember them right now.

Desireè Brown: 39:53

You know, I was just waiting for your lesson to come to mind.

Vernon Brown: 39:57

Yeah, it's some lessons. I just can't remember what they are right now, but there's some lessons. It's just that like from a milestone perspective. To me it wasn't like, and maybe there's more truth to it it didn't meet my expectations and that's why I feel like it was inconsequential, like I I desire to do, accomplish, finish more things, and it didn't happen that way. So because of that, I'm like yeah, it was whatever. Does that make sense?

Desireè Brown: 40:37

what were some of the things that you were like? What did you expect?

Vernon Brown: 40:44

I could expect the same thing every year, Like a bunch of stuff to move, a bunch of stuff to change, a bunch of cool things to happen and either because it wasn't in the cards or maybe I wasn't as consistent as I needed to be to make those things happen, it just wasn't. So it's okay, here, so disappointed yeah like if, if there was a choice, I would just skip over this year last year.

Desireè Brown: 41:07

Last year, like if I could like, pick what years to live. I'd be like, oh yeah, I want that year 2024 okay, because I'm seeing it and you know this, because we've just said this, but I'm seeing it as things had to happen for other things to happen, like you don't. It just doesn't happen. Where people go from crawling to running, it just doesn't happen. Okay, I know you want it to happen.

Vernon Brown: 41:34

No, I think there are situations where like that happens.

Desireè Brown: 41:39

Okay, this is more of the typical situation where people have to crawl, then walk, then run, and so I think that I think it's easy to overlook that transition and even in walking like, there's walking where you're like stumbling around like a little baby baby just learning to walk, and then there's walking like a full-grown adult who walks with a cadence and a gait that is strong and confident. So there's even levels to walking and I think that it's hard to see the transition from the unstable walk to the confident cadence walk and I think that's what 2024 was. Okay. He's still like I'm disappointed. It did not meet my expectations and I would rather not have had to do it. So, okay, yeah, I wasted a year, but okay, wasted. Okay, we'll see what happens in 25 and we'll see if it was actually a waste. Absolutely okay. So I think we can stop there. We could just wrap up this episode of part well, episode one of season two.

Vernon Brown: 42:54

Yeah, um, kind of feels like we're ending on a down because vernon's disappointed with 2024 but well, just take her impression of 2024, because you think it to be better than I.

Desireè Brown: 43:08

Well, actually that's not even true. I think it to be a have been a year of growth yeah for both of us and, um, sometimes it's, it's you're only able to see how much you grew, like after, yeah, like it all happened.

Vernon Brown: 43:23

So we'll see, I think at the end of 2025, I still think 2024 would have sucked, but we'll go.

Desireè Brown: 43:28

We'll see. We'll see, it's to be seen.

Vernon Brown: 43:30

Do you like to place a wager?

Desireè Brown: 43:32

Uh, no, what are you wagering, I don't know, like $10.

Vernon Brown: 43:42

Okay, $. What are you wagering? I don't know like ten dollars, okay it was 20, no dinner at my favorite restaurant yes, okay done, all right. So if I'm disappointed in 2024, at the end of 2025, you take me to my favorite restaurant.

Desireè Brown: 43:50

I already know you. That's not going to change. You're going to be disappointed with 2024.

Vernon Brown: 43:54

You already pinky pinky promised on it. Well, they saw how that happened. They didn't see me reach over.

Desireè Brown: 43:56

I'm going to my favorite restaurant and I'll just take you Wait, it was 2024. Well, you already, pinky, promised on it. Well, they saw how that happened.

Vernon Brown: 44:01

They didn't see me reach over and give me the Pinky. I'm going to my favorite restaurant. I'll just take you to your favorite restaurant. Well, know what that means? That means flight. That means hotel.

Desireè Brown: 44:06

Oh, it means we're going to drive and we're going to stay at my parents' house and we're going to drive there. That's not going to be that fancy.

Vernon Brown: 44:16

Anyway, I want to know what your 2024s look like. Were you excited about it? Were you happy with the growth that happened and the development that happened, or are you kind of like meh, it's like an inconsequential Jenga block that you pull out.

Desireè Brown: 44:29

We could have just skipped this year.

Vernon Brown: 44:29

We could have just skipped the year.

Desireè Brown: 44:30

Let us know.

Vernon Brown: 44:31

We would love to hear how your year has gone.

Desireè Brown: 44:39

Yeah, yeah, love to know how your year is going. All right, well, we'll see you next time with at conversations at the. Well, thank you for tuning in. Don't forget to like, subscribe and share bye see you later.

Vernon Brown: 44:47

How much more time you got.