Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello, welcome back to Conversations at the Well Happy.

Speaker 2: 0:03

Valentine's Day.

Speaker 1: 0:04

Oh, happy Valentine's Day, but it's not gonna come out on Valentine's Day.

Speaker 2: 0:06

I take that back. That didn't happen.

Speaker 1: 0:08

It is Valentine's Day, but hello and welcome back to Conversations at the Well, I'm Desiree Brown and this is my husband, vernon Brown. Today we're gonna be talking about anchors. I think it's a much needed conversation. You're probably like what, what is?

Speaker 2: 0:31

that, but if you stick around and listen, you will find out for sure. All right, we'll see you soon.

Speaker 1: 0:33

See you then all right, hey, babe, hey, hey. So today we're talking about anchors, anchors. So should I describe what that is?

Speaker 2: 0:37

yeah, because I don't know what you're talking about all right.

Speaker 1: 0:39

So, anchors, I was thinking about this idea. I mean, it's been a lot going on. I think the headlines have people like feeling one way or another, some people are overjoyed, some people are like devastated, and there's just those things going on. But this is not unusual. This is something that just happens throughout life, where there are these changes that sometimes are out of our control. Sometimes there's more things that are in within our control, and so we want to. I wanted to talk about things that keep us anchored in the middle of constant movement and changes throughout life.

Speaker 2: 1:14

I see what you did there.

Speaker 1: 1:15

Okay, yes, that makes more sense he didn't know what I was talking about before we started this, he was like what we're talking about? I was like anchors.

Speaker 2: 1:22

He's like okay, when I think I think the things you screw into the drywall before you screw on something heavy and it kind of works.

Speaker 1: 1:30

But I wasn't thinking about feelings and stuff but you know what, honestly, that metaphor, that could be a metaphor for here, we go for for helping to balance when things feel heavy yeah, yeah, I like that yeah so, like how do you like not fall out the wall when you're supposed to be holding up something that feels very strenuous and heavy, and like I don't even know if I can do this?

Speaker 1: 1:54

so like that is an anchor, but of course, of course, like the uh, a more typical anchor. When we think about an anchor is more from like a boating perspective yeah, it holds it in the same spot it holds it in the same spot in an ocean that's always moving in an ocean that's always moving.

Speaker 1: 2:13

Perhaps there's a storm going on. I don't know if you want to be anchored during a storm I don't know, I'm not a I'm not a boater, I don't know but sounds like it might be something that you might consider. If, uh, especially if you're docked somewhere, you want to be anchored so your boat is not flowing, floating away somewhere, but it's just something that keeps you held in place when the circumstances around you are shifting whether they are shifting in a slower manner, where it's just like a nice gentle flow manner, where it's just like a nice gentle flow if we're talking about water, or if it's something that is a bit more like a torrential rain or storm or something it still has. It helps you to stay in place when things are going.

Speaker 2: 2:56

But I think sometimes when we talk about anchors in this context, we automatically jump to the negative, that when things are going wrong you need an anchor. But I think likewise, even when things are going really, really, sometimes it helps to be anchored so that you don't get too full of yourself.

Speaker 1: 3:10

Yeah, absolutely. So I wanted to open up the conversation and kind of talk about that, because I I mean, I don't know, I've been, I have been trying to stay. Not, I haven't tried very well, but I've been trying to stay. You've tried, but I haven't tried very well, but I've been trying to stay.

Speaker 1: 3:24

You tried, but you haven't succeeded I have not succeeded in kind of staying away from the, just the headlines, and, um, a lot of changes are happening, as we all know, and, uh, it just feels unsettling, if you allow it to now. Then there's some coping mechanisms that we have, and maybe that's what we're talking about the coping mechanisms that we have to be okay in the midst of a lot of shifts. So, um, you are a person who tends to not be emotionally rocked by much, be emotionally rocked by much, and it is something that has both. Uh, it's, it's made me.

Speaker 2: 4:19

I guess I have admired it, but I've also been very frustrated by it too.

Speaker 1: 4:21

What do you mean frustrated Like? Do you not feel this way? So, anyway, I thought I thought perhaps there's something I can learn from you and maybe I can share some of the things I try as well and maybe our people listening, our viewers, our listeners, will let us know what they do to kind of maintain when circumstances are shifting. And it doesn't have to be a negative thing, like you said. It could be like, oh my gosh, all of a sudden I found like mass success and things are shifting, or I don't know, like other other good things.

Speaker 1: 4:54

Maybe family dynamics have changed, like maybe they have gone from being a single person to a married person, or maybe they have welcomed a new child into their family, or maybe it could be, maybe it's just a new relationship and they're trying to make room in their life for someone else. So I'm curious about how you manage to like what are your anchors like? What keeps you grounded and focused so you're not so emotionally rocked by? Well, headlines, for sure, but I want to even think a little bit closer to home. When there are shifts and changes in your personal life, how do you like your? Your demeanor says you're not rocked by it, but you might be peddling heavily underneath the water well, I think there are things that you can control and things that you can't control.

Speaker 2: 5:48

Your demeanor says you're not rocked by it, but you might be peddling heavily underneath the water. Well, I think there are things that you can control and things that you can't control, and I think there are a few different types of people. But like to to break that statement down. I think there are people who can like really indulge and be fearful in what could happen, and then there are people who spend most of their time thinking about what is happening and what I mean when I say what is happening, I mean what is impacting them. And I think, when we peel back the layer on headlines and changes and all the things that are circling around us, much of what we worry about hasn't actually happened yet. Like it's things that may happen, it's things that possibly could happen, it's things that you know, maybe people have told us could happen, but they haven't actually happened.

Speaker 2: 6:33

So for me, a huge anchor is what's actually actually happening to me right now and what can I do to affect it? Because if I can't do anything to affect it, what am I worried about it for? Like, I can be upset, I can be angry. I can have all the feelings, all the emotions, like you were saying, but if there's nothing that I can do within my power to change, impact or modify it, I can have the choice to either just feel that and be stressed out by that, or I'm going to say I can't really change it. So what? What do I? What do I do? Does that make sense?

Speaker 1: 7:09

it makes sense, it's very logical. Um, I do. I guess I have a question around the. You have basically said I can choose, so you've boiled it down to it is a choice. It is a choice to worry. It is a choice. It is a choice to worry. It is a choice to be anxious, and perhaps that's true.

Speaker 2: 7:28

When I think about, like when I lost my job for that long time like, on one hand, man, I really need a job On the other hand, all I could do is apply. So there's this huge cloud hanging over my life and I'm applying, I'm applying, I'm doing everything that I can. I can continue to worry, or I can just find something else to do, to actively do that will take my mind off of that, because if I just sit here and wallow and worry, it's not going to do anybody any good.

Speaker 1: 7:59

So that okay. So that's way more practical, because I was like, well, how do you make the choice? So it sounds like it's it's okay. Within my realm of control, this is what I can do. I can apply for jobs. I can, you know, let people know I'm looking. I can I don't know update my linkedin pro.

Speaker 2: 8:19

I don't know, whatever those things are, all of the things all linkedin um membership that you only get when you're looking for a job pro account.

Speaker 1: 8:27

Yeah, but like so the it was. It was almost as if you were just putting your redirecting your energy into things that you could do something about, versus the things you could not.

Speaker 2: 8:37

Yeah because I mean otherwise, we're literally just worrying for no reason. Um, because either it's no reason because it hasn't happened yet or hasn't impacted us really yet, or it's no reason because we can't do nothing about it. So it's kind of like, you know, you see those, um, you see those funny movies where, like, well, this is a horrible example, but I still say it I you see those movies where, let's say, a cartoon where some bomb is about to go off in some amount of minutes and they're just sitting here. Well, I'll just kick up my feet and read the newspaper because at some point you can't do anything about it. And like you worrying or running, or this, that and the third, you're not going to get far enough away, you're not going to be able to change anything. So what can you control? Well, I mean, I guess I can go in the basement. I hope for the best, but outside of that, what are we doing?

Speaker 1: 9:36

Yeah, well, I think it's. I think it's very practical and, as a person who has dealt with like anxious thoughts and especially, I think I'm better now. I won't say I'm fully cured of that, but I will say that I cope a lot better than I did a while ago, like it used to be not good, yeah.

Speaker 1: 9:49

And so I do think, like even in therapy, you talk about like, what are you thinking about? What you're thinking about so, like, what are those thoughts that are going through your mind? And reframing the thoughts that you have that are coming your way? Because and what I mean by reframing is like, if I take the situation with your, your job, your layoff, right, so so it happened. You weren't even anticipating it happened. So it wasn't like I'm so worried, I'm going to lose my job. It was just like, oh crap, I just lost my job. Now I have to figure out, like my next move. So I guess they kind of almost saved you in a way, because it wasn't like a lead up to it. But for for, for a person who is faced with that situation, ok, has lost their jobs, it could be.

Speaker 1: 10:41

Maybe the first initial reaction is like oh my gosh, this is so devastating. How am I going to pay my bills? How am I going to do this? How am I going to do that? Where's my meal? Where are the meals going to come from? Where the bills? How the bills going to get paid? I got, I got to feed my family and all the other things.

Speaker 1: 10:53

So that might be the initial reaction, but it's still like, okay, but. But, okay, let's today, are we fed? Yes, all right, we got some clothes, we got a roof right now, um, next thing is due. Maybe it's due soon, maybe it's due in a week, maybe it's due in a few days, but, um, we were already prepared to pay that one. Cool, so we're good. So we got a month to figure this out essentially, and then from there, the reframing. The reframing begins to start like, what is in my control? Can I pay for my whatever for this month? Boom, got that covered. Okay, so next month we maybe, maybe we have savings, maybe we don't. If we don't have savings, we got to figure this thing out what resources are available?

Speaker 2: 11:37

Like how can I yeah who?

Speaker 1: 11:39

do I talk to? Do I need to call my mortgage company? Do I need to call my landlord, like what? What can I do to be proactive and mitigating the potential risks that are there and, um, I think that's, I think that's super practical. Are there other? Sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 2: 11:57

No, no. And and I think the the common thread through that is you can. There's a choice you can allow yourself to be overtaken by the thought, or you can be overtaken by the action. And so, on one hand, oh my goodness, what's going to happen, what's going to happen, what's going to yeah, those feelings and thoughts are there. Or I can say all of that's a huge cloud and I can't reach out and grab a cloud. Let me figure out what the real problem. Okay, this bill's coming up, that bill's coming up, that bill's coming up, and let's try to solve these one at a time, and so, in one, you're just allowing yourself to just wallow in what you can't grasp. The other one, you're doing the same thing, but, like you said, reapplying your focus to the problems at hand.

Speaker 2: 12:41

And I think a better analogy rather than talking about, like, how do you recover from not expecting and then just losing your job. But what happens if it's like hanging over your head, like, oh my gosh, this could happen, this possibly could happen, oh my goodness. Well, this is where the conversation gets uncomfortable. Do you deserve to get fired, like when you look at your work, when you look at how you do your job. I think the first question should be why am I here? And, being very honest about, am I really adding value? And for some of us, that answer may be no. I'm really not. I really didn't do a good job. I really am a mediocre employee, and I think you have to be able to be aware enough to say that, because that's going to judge what you do next.

Speaker 2: 13:26

Well, with the time I have left when they're putting their names on the chopping block, maybe I need to change my behavior. Maybe I need to show up on time. Maybe I need to actually log in and do my work. Maybe I need to do my job as I'm supposed to. One, because it may show that I care about my job to my leaders. But two, it may get you in a habit of actually working.

Speaker 2: 13:44

So when you find your next role, you have the habits, you have the consistency, you have the ability to do your job as you should, and then from there, it's like you. We have to stop in the things in which we have a role in, we have to stop putting those responsibilities on everybody else. There are some people who just don't do their job well. They just average, and average means that when it comes time to cut back, you're the first one on the chopping block, after the people who are below average, but you're still on the chopping block and I think too often we get upset, get in our feelings oh my gosh, this is happening to me. You put yourself here, and I think the more we can communicate that like that, honestly and effectively, is the more we can have real conversations about how we move to the next place.

Speaker 1: 14:32

Okay, so let's talk about the people who are like no, I've been doing everything, like I've been working my tail off, I've been showing up on time Like I am very reliable, all of those things. How would you, how would you address those people?

Speaker 2: 14:47

So, first of all, what percentage of those people are they?

Speaker 1: 14:49

Um, not, I don't think there's a high percentage. But what my my point is? I just yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:54

But I think we put ourselves in that category way quicker than we should because we think what we do is effective, but we've never asked those who, whose opinions matter, if what we do is really effective. Just because you do the five tasks on your to-do list or you do the job as written doesn't make you an A student. It makes you average because you just did what was asked of you. So I think that's first because I think there's a lot of people who think they do great work and great jobs, but they just do what's required, which literally, by definition, is average. That's what you've been asked to do. So we're talking about a super, super, super, super small group of people that not only do what's required of them, but are doing what truly adds value to their company organization or to their manager to lighten their load. So if you find yourself in that 3% of people, then I think it's okay. This is happening. This has a possibility of happening. Is this a place I want to be? If you are truly that stellar of an employee, you have options. You don't have to be there because you're a great employee. You can draw clear lines between what you do and the impact that's happening because of it. So go find a job tomorrow.

Speaker 2: 16:05

But I think what a lot of people will realize is doing what you think to be great, which is actually average, isn't really all that desirable in the eyes of other employers. Like it's rough and it's brutal and it sounds hurtful and it makes you kind of look at yourself differently. But I think when we really look at ourselves sometimes we find that we may be in positions because of us more than anything. And let me anchor this by saying I'm a I don't want to say I'm a take ownership kind of person, but it's easier for me to accept something that is my fault than something that I had nothing to do with. So I'm always going to try to find my fault in a situation because I feel like I can't get better by saying it's somebody else's fault. Even if it's their fault, I still can't get better because of that. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1: 17:10

Yes. Do you agree with that? No, I mean yes, no, yes and no. You know, I have personal thoughts on that which I don't know.

Speaker 2: 17:18

I'm not talking about you. Do you agree with that being an assessment of how I choose to look at it?

Speaker 1: 17:22

Oh, yes, yes, yes, I thought you were asking about your general thoughts on this, but I just I have more, more, I think I just have a different approach to it, Like yeah. I.

Speaker 2: 17:49

I, yeah, anywho, like what I think we, and I don't think it does a good service, because we're talking about jobs, but every manager, during every cutting season, has one or two people that are non-negotiable. I need them. Like you, I can't do this without them, and so that golden parachute always exists. But if that chopping block comes to you, you are not that golden parachute. So you can either say, oh, my gosh, whoa, to me this happened. Or you could say there were two parachutes of people who jumped off the plane before it crashed and I didn't get one of them. But even even with the layoff with me like there are people who still work at that company I didn't get one of the parachutes. Why not? Well, I did my job well. I did my job well. Maybe my job, as I was doing it well, wasn't adding enough value for them to say we can't let go of him.

Speaker 1: 18:47

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:48

Because there were people whose name probably came up. We can't let go of him because he does this. They do that, yeah, or this person is, you know, controls the books like we have.

Speaker 1: 18:58

It makes sense, it makes sense and it makes sense. I think it's. It's something that most people don't think about.

Speaker 2: 19:04

It's uncomfortable because it points the finger back at you.

Speaker 1: 19:07

That part, yes, but also because I don't think most people are in a position of hiring and firing. I think that when you begin to be the person making the decisions, you begin to understand that a whole lot more and a whole lot differently. And so, for example, like if you're let's say you were responsible for hiring people, you have the opportunity to review all of the resumes that come in for that particular position and you can see a clear difference in the applicants.

Speaker 1: 19:41

You can see like, wow, these are stellar standout people. And then, okay, these other people are like okay, they could probably do the job. And then you'll see the people's like I don't even know why they applied for this, because they just know. So when you come, when you have that experience and that perspective, it really it shows you something a little different and it also makes you reflect a bit more on yourself and like how you as an individual would stand up to other people competing for the same position.

Speaker 2: 20:11

Yeah, and I mean, you know we started this talking about anchors and dealing with, like, uncertain times, and I don't necessarily think the way that I think is healthy either. Or even better, because taking I'm not going to say taking that level of accountability, but recognizing that that level of accountability exists may not always be the most the best mental health way to live your life, because literally everything in some way comes back to being your fault. Literally everything in some way comes back to being your fault, like there's no. If you think like this, there's no getting around the fact that, hey, I had a role in it, hey, it was my fault, hey, your circumstances were bad, but you still fail, like so I'm not saying I recommend this way of thinking because it's it's, you know, it makes you take ownership of a lot of things and I'm not sure if people are really built to take that much ownership, um, or to just embrace the fact that it's not that important to me. That's why I'm here.

Speaker 1: 21:17

So I guess, okay, a question around that, because I do think that that's a. I'm on the couch. Well, it it, it sounds, it, sounds it it's a. It's a very American worldview, right, this is not something I mean in in other places, in other countries. We don't have like performance and efficiency and all that kind of stuff. These, these are very American concepts, um, not to say that other places or other countries don't think about them, those things, but our, our society is largely based on like more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, do more, perform better, do like like all of those things, right. And so I guess I have the the question around. What is my question? My question is around okay, so you think you're like I don't know if that's a good, I don't know if that's a recommended way of handling things, but like what? So what would you recommend? Like how does one still strive for to do their best to do?

Speaker 2: 22:23

their best and add value. Well, let me clarify what I just said. I would recommend it because I think it's effective, but I don't know that it's recommended for other people, if that makes sense. So I think it's the best way to think of things, because it makes you take ownership. However, I can see someone like getting overwhelmed and feeling like they're a failure and ending their life because nothing is ever good enough.

Speaker 1: 22:54

So how do you? What is your anchor Like? How do you not get to that dark place?

Speaker 2: 23:02

I just I choose my battles. I recognize I don't have enough time, energy or desire to do all of these things, and so I decide that that's not going to be important in this season. I can give all the lip service I want, but I didn't do it. So I decided that it wasn't important. And by me recognizing that I made that decision, it's not whoa, whoa, whoa failure, it's I chose something different. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1: 23:34

Okay.

Speaker 2: 23:36

So like the.

Speaker 1: 23:36

So any consequences that come from it you're like all right.

Speaker 2: 23:40

I chose. I decided like it wasn't. Just like usually let's say so. Let's say there's some deliverable at work that didn't get done. I know it's supposed to be done. So when the person calls at the last minute saying where is it, I'm not surprised because I know it was coming. Now it's still not done, because I chose for it not to get done.

Speaker 2: 24:01

But I'm not going to sit here and lie and be like, oh my gosh, my boss is so crazy because you're calling for this. No, it was due. I knew it was due and I decided not to do it. Now I may have indirectly decided by saying, oh, I'm gonna get back to that and I forgot, but that's not the boss's problem, that's my problem for my failure. So I take responsibility for that and I recognize that I decided not to do it in that moment. I decided to leave it up to my memory and I decided to therefore fail. But I'm not going to put it in that moment. I decided to leave it up to my memory and I decided to therefore fail, but I'm not going to put it off on somebody else, like it's your problem.

Speaker 2: 24:36

So I I recommend that way of thinking because you know, as bad as the consequences may be in the back of my mind, bro, you know you didn't do that.

Speaker 2: 24:46

Like I can lie and be like I wanted to do it or this, that and the third, or come up with excuses, but I know in my heart of hearts that I didn't do it, yeah, and I know in my heart of hearts that it came up and Holy Spirit tried to remind me and I busy myself with other things. So now the bill came due and I got to deal with the consequences. But I'm not so fake that I'm going to come up and fabricate some sort of story to blame it on somebody else. I may tell somebody that, but as for me and what I know, nah, bruh, you messed up and that's why you're here. And so if worse comes to worse and you get fired because of it, you know you got to deal with that. And because I decided I'm not just around here wallowing in pity because of the woe is me I chose. This is the bed I chose, not laying it, but why is that funny?

Speaker 1: 25:42

It's funny because I know you, but the audience is getting to know you more. Oh, I don't know. This might be an interesting episode, like maybe people actually comment on this one so, so, like real, real scenario.

Speaker 2: 25:57

So my weight I'm trying to lose? Well, I have had. So that's the truth, right, okay?

Speaker 1: 26:03

so I.

Speaker 2: 26:04

I have had that on my list of things for a while, yeah, but at the end of the day I haven't lost any weight or I haven't lost weight consistently. I can say, oh my gosh, I need Ozempic or I need this or I need whatever tool or quick fad that they need. No, I need to put the fork down and stop eating late at night. Like I need to sit here in these classes and actually take them, versus going over here and working on stuff. I need to prioritize that so I can live long enough to hang out with my kids. But if that's not happening, I can say, oh my gosh, and this, that and the third and all these other excuses. Or I can just say, nah, bro, you ain't due to work.

Speaker 2: 26:41

And does that make you feel better when you are looking at yourself in pictures? No, but at the end of the day, when I see that and I feel that I control that, I just have not decided to control it. So within that failure, I can still. I still feel it. But I recognize it is because of a active and effective and purposeful decision that I make consistently. So there's no fingers a point but to you. So the question isn't. The question is not um, how do I crack this code or how do I do something different. The question is when is it going to become important enough for you to do the work consistently over time? When is it going to be so important that you do that over and over and over and over and over again?

Speaker 1: 27:29

Okay, it makes sense. It's very, very logical, very practical. Um, and then there's the, the there, there's principles behind that, like there's there's biblical principles but there's also, like, just life principles. It makes a lot of sense. Um, you're talking, reminded of that, um, I guess it's a poem, poem, poem, poem that's how you always say it country poem I say poem anyway, but um excuses, you've heard that one excuses are the tools of the incompetent, which is those who specialize in them, seldom accomplish anything.

Speaker 1: 28:10

So, um, interestingly enough, um a lot of people like, if they've pledged a fraternity or sorority, they will learn. They typically will learn that when they're online.

Speaker 1: 28:19

But I learned it from, I think, my first, second, third grade teacher who, who probably learned it while they were online. But we would have to repeat that and I've it's, it's been there. But I think the reality of it becomes far clearer when you're an adult, cause, as a child, you're like, oh, it was. Oh, that was Ms Washington, that was. That was actually a little bit later, that was like in middle school. But boy, she drilled that thing into us. Um, but she was like for real, like it's stop giving me excuses if you didn't do it.

Speaker 2: 28:55

You didn't do it you chose not to do it is that my fault?

Speaker 1: 28:58

you didn't do it. You didn't do it, you chose yeah and if you didn't understand and you didn't ask a question again, so excuses, and uh, yeah, she excuses and uh, yeah, she would. She would nail us with that every time we weren't performing as we were as as the standard and expectation that she had, which was very high. As we did not live up to that, she would remind us.

Speaker 2: 29:22

And excuses given to others are. I mean, I don't want to say they're horrible, but they're okay Excuse given if you must do what you got to do. But don't lie to yourself, and that's my big thing. Like I can feed whatever I want to anybody else, but I don't want to be so off that I don't know which way is up. Like I, in all cases, I should know what the truth is about me. I could tell y'all and I could spin it to y'all and I can come up with a great story for everybody else.

Speaker 2: 29:57

But at the end of the day, it's a dangerous and concerning place to be when you don't know your truth, because then how can you fix it, even if I want to fix something in the dark, if I don't know my truth, then I don't know where to put the hammer, I don't know where to saw. So the world, and I wish that we and what we portrayed to the world was always congruent, always parallel, always the same. But in the event that it's not, for whatever reason, just guard that you know your truth and because that's the only way that any kind of change is going to happen, because you can't decide to say okay, today's going to be the day I fix it. But now you've fallen so in love with what, the fakeness, who you are, that you don't even know what parts of you are broken.

Speaker 1: 30:43

Interesting, Interesting. I had a thought that I've lost as you were talking but it's Trying much. No, um, it was just, I don't know. Anyway, we're going to move on because we're still talking about anchors and it sounds like one anchor for you is truth.

Speaker 2: 31:04

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:05

Truth is an anchor, and it should be. I think that probably Probably as a bigger anchor. So one of them is like what's it within your control? Another one is truth, and both of those are tied together because what's within your control and that that should be true.

Speaker 2: 31:25

Now, as I as I guess the question would would be how many truths are there? And I think there are multiple truths that we need to manage. Okay, go ahead, go ahead, cause I'm like what I have, my truth, that I think is, is happening as I, as I experience the world, but every person who comes into contact with me also has the truth through their lens, and I think too often we rely only on our truth for some people, and then too often we rely only upon the truth of those observers for other people, whereas the real truth needs to be my truth in view of theirs and or their truth in view of mine, and so what I mean by that is I have a very unique way of looking at the world as you can see by this, but I recognize that I'm in the minority of people who think this way.

Speaker 2: 32:29

And so how I show up in the world, I may think I'm looking one way, but other people are experiencing me in a completely different manner. Now, just because I have belief and understanding of how I think and I believe it to be right, does not necessarily mean that that's how everyone else experiences it. And so, from a truth based conversation, I need to both manage how I live my truth, but then also understand how that truth is experienced for others. So then I can make that same decision to say do I want to impact others that way? Does that make?

Speaker 1: 33:08

sense to say do I want to impact others that way? Does that make sense? So let's say okay. Let's say, as a parent, okay. So, um, I need a scenario. I can't think of a scenario, but I'm I'm curious, but from what I hear you saying, there's how you perceive yourself as a parent your truth. Yeah, there's how your children perceive you as a parent.

Speaker 2: 33:38

So we need our boys to be disciplined. I need you to wake up. I need you to handle your business and get on with your day. Um, I don't care what you got going on. Handle your business, daddy. Can you look at my invention? I don't care, handle your business, daddy. Can we do that? I don't care, have you handled your business To me-?

Speaker 1: 33:57

What does handle your business mean for the audience?

Speaker 2: 33:59

Oh, for our kids that's wake up, make your bed, clean your room is what I'm adding. Brush your teeth, wash your face, all the things. All the things get dressed, all the things. Um, handle your business. Now, from my perspective, I'm teaching my children discipline. From their perspective, daddy doesn't care, or daddy doesn't want to see my invention, or daddy um is always too busy, or daddy, you know, doesn't have time. Now there's very there, there's a lot of legitimacy to what I'm trying to teach them by saying I don't want to see your face until you handle your business, because there's stuff that needs to get done and you need to recognize that your morning routine is important and nothing is as important, for the most part, than you setting up your morning routine and getting your stuff done and getting your day started on the right track, because it will influence the rest of your day. It's super important. That's the lesson I'm trying to teach.

Speaker 2: 34:56

But if they're interpreting that that daddy doesn't care, daddy doesn't have time, daddy don't want to see me until I do this work, I need to work to earn my daddy's love. I need to live out my truth with an understanding of how they're experiencing it. Throw that all in the pot and see what comes out. The Bible says a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. So I may think I have this beautiful, perfect masterpiece, but I threw some dog crap on top of it and mixed it all up. Now the whole thing tastes like dog crap.

Speaker 2: 35:29

So I missed the entire mission because I didn't recognize that there are views outside of mine. That doesn't mean I turned into some some chocolatey clear backbone person and just say, oh, what do you want to see? And you want I tell you to go to bed? And you want to show me something? Oh, let's sit down for the next three hours. No, but I just need to look at my truth through the lens of how others see it. Take that into account. There'll be some times where it's like, okay, I need to modify a few things. There'll be other times boy, get your butt in bed. But it's important that you recognize that multiple threads of truth exist and, with the same power that you choose to live your own truth, you have to choose that your truth is going to make other people feel a certain kind of way. Are you okay with that or do you need to modify? Does that make sense? Do you agree? Yeah, you don't agree.

Speaker 1: 36:20

It's funny because you are very you and you're, what, are you not I?

Speaker 2: 36:28

want to hear what you, what this butt covered at the end of it.

Speaker 1: 36:36

Well, I always think it's interesting that we got placed together because I'm like you know, like I'm just not, as I don't have that. I desire to have that discipline, but I don't have that same, I don't carry it out and in the same way, because you might be like you to chocolate, to clear over here, you're like, oh, let me see your invention, but. But I think that there's, I think, kind of need one another, because if it was just a household where, where it was only, uh, what was it to handle your business, then that can, I guess, create some of those, um, unintended they'll be very disciplined but also have the unintended consequences of maybe not feeling that love, whereas they're gonna feel the love over here, but they can't just all the time feel that, because then there's no discipline yeah and so I do think that is a.

Speaker 1: 37:31

It's an interesting balance, just because we look at the life and and um and just come into life in our days differently. But I learned from you because I'm like, oh, I need to also have my you know, handle my business mentality, because there are just some things that completely fall apart. We're talking about anchors completely fall apart when you don't do it. So another an anchor is like routine, routine and habits, which I guess are part of routine, right, rituals, if you will, that help your day to go well, because if you do, if you go to bed, bed on time, that means you can wake up on time. If you wake up on time, that means you can do the things that help you with your mental health or maybe your spiritual health, or just you can ease yourself into your day. You don't have to start the day, you know full throttle, whereas if you wake up up late you're running ripping full throttle.

Speaker 1: 38:27

Your patience is low. Come on, boy boy, get your stuff packed. Come on, get in the car. Why are your shoes not on? Like that whole situation which I know a lot of parents can relate to. But it just when the day starts well, the day goes better. When the day does not start well, like the rest of the day, just feels kind of not quite right. You're feels like you're constantly trying to catch up. You might eventually catch up, but it just feels that way, definitely for the first few hours.

Speaker 2: 38:59

Which I think is a critical anchor, um, but I almost think that the word anchor oversimplifies it, because anchor as a concept is one thing, but it's, it's really made up of a bunch of smaller decisions. So we talked about, or we just talked about, anchoring your life with the morning routine. Well, first mini anchor she probably need to get in bed at a regular hour. Like you said, you got to wake up at a decent hour and you got to get out of bed at a decent hour, and it's like all of these different mini decisions that flow off of those things.

Speaker 2: 39:36

I think, when we think of it as, oh, I need a morning routine, it's very easy to fail that. But what's not easy to fail or what's less easy to fail is did I wake up on time? Like that's a, that's a win. And I think when we start to back into developing the life that we love or the life that we want to live, as we break those things and those decisions down into smaller, smaller, bite-sized chunks, you can start to recognize that, even if you feel like your life is a failure, there are a lot of wins that happen.

Speaker 2: 40:11

And for me, the more I take ownership and control of my life, the more I can recognize those wins. So, for example, I want to have a very specific morning routine that probably is centered around waking up from 4.30 to 5, somewhere around there. Well to say, I'm going to wake up at 4 30 AM tomorrow, get up, exercise, do this, do that, do that, do that. It's probably a recipe for disaster. But if I can create the habit of waking up at that time, that's step one and that's a win. And then step two down the road, maybe wake up and get out of bed.

Speaker 1: 40:46

By a certain time. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:47

By a certain time, and or and or like even in this season right now, like I've I would say I'm with like 80% consistency have been waking up at between 4.30 and 5. Now, we may spend time talking at that time, in which is me deciding that, okay, I started this with the desire to get up and start my morning routine, but I'm now deciding to kind of steal those moments with my wife, which is kind of cool. So my plans have changed. It's no longer a failure, it's a success, through the lens of. I'm now spending this time doing this where I originally started out with doing something different. I decided, though and by me making that decision I still put that anchor in my back pocket that I got up, I was awake, I had some level of a coherent conversation, and then, when the season when the next season or the season that's appropriate comes, then I can say, okay, cool, now let me go and start working on the rest of this routine, but the habit I'm still working on.

Speaker 1: 41:46

Yeah, it makes sense. I think that it makes sense because it does make sense.

Speaker 1: 41:51

It's a lot of, again, logic and practicality in what you're saying. So it does make sense, but I think many of us struggle with actually implementing those things. It's funny we were talking about at work. It was like we had a meeting. It was icebreaker, was about books or reading, and, um, I'm still reading the bible, although I have fallen off in my consistency. So I don't know if I'm going to meet my six-month goal unless I do some serious, um, like focused work on that. But so there's that. But but then, um, one of my coworkers said that they're reading atomic habits and it is, and she was talking about I've picked it up and put it down. Picked it up, put it down and, like, just hasn't been able to finish it. I was like I can send you the cliff notes, it's fine.

Speaker 1: 42:41

It's like you do something that is going to like the cue, the thing that is going to start off your day to create the chain create the yeah, the chain of of action that says, all right, these things are going to get done, because when I do this, I do after, I do this, I do this, after I do this, I do this, and it's just kind of a chain reaction to wins and successes. And it was funny because right before we got on, I was like literally looking up the summary of Atomic Habits and it's related to this particular conversation because what we're describing is very much that book and I'm like, oh shoot, maybe I need to go back and read the book again or just pick up the at least the summary and remind myself of this is this is how this works. So, like when I start falling off or when I'm like, no, I think I'm just going to sleep longer, it's like recognizing that that's breaking the chain of the habits.

Speaker 2: 43:38

Yeah, and I think that's the topic of anchors and atomic habits, the book which y'all should all read everybody should read that book. It's a great book are in alignment with each other and I think it's undergirded or or held up by the principle of taking ownership, recognizing there's feelings and emotions and we might have to get to that in another episode, how to deal with those but as it pertains to functioning in life and functioning in the wavy ocean that is life, that's always moving. Picking up an anchor, deciding what's going to start your atomic habit chain, whatever it is, and then start taking control of your life, decision by decision. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 44:30

Well, and I would, I just want to, I do want to address the like, the emotional pulling and pushing that a lot of us are experiencing right now. Right now, I'll say I'm experiencing I don't know if you're experiencing it at all, but, um, I will say that that in and of itself is part of the the chain, or perhaps the broken chain, because what I have done I know for me, because of the way news is reported, is so sensationalized and it's designed to get people riled up, it's designed to make people emotional. I know that I cannot handle it on in regular doses. I cannot handle news on like TV. I cannot do that. It's just too much for me, and so for that reason, I have cut that out of my life for the most part, if I can help it, I'm not watching the news, but I don't want to be living in a bubble where I don't know anything that's going on in the world.

Speaker 1: 45:32

I tried that for a while. It was great, it felt good, but it was just like you're so disconnected you don't know what's going on. I didn't want to be that. So now I have the headlines that are delivered to my email, but the key for that to be successful is to only consume that after the other stuff is done or to consume it in a manner of all right, I'm giving myself dedicated time to read, to experience, experience, to feel what I feel, but I gotta get back to doing the rest of the work, that is, that has been out late, outlined or laid out for me for the day, and because I've what I've realized and I know you have something to say but what I've realized is, if I consume that before I get out of bed like I'm'm like, I'm now like and I have I have added on to my day where I now have to do some mental and emotional work to get myself to be all right to be able to do the rest of the day.

Speaker 2: 46:42

I think it all. It all goes back to habit chains. And we only think about habit chains as it pertains to us being better parents or us losing weight or us accomplishing some task. But the way the brain works, everything is a habit. Everything is a habit because the brain is trying. With so many pieces of information coming into our brain, the brain says I need some way of summarizing it. Let me create a habit, I do this, I do this, I do this, I do this.

Speaker 2: 47:14

And I think when you recognize that life is a endless stream of habit chains, then you recognize that when you read that article you feel the same way because you're kicking off that chain of events and so what you talked about was all right. Well, I have so many things going on right now. Let me just throw that anchor or throw that habit chain over there. And I know I can't engage or start that program in my mind until after I'm done working or after a certain time in the day, because then I can, then I can deal with it, then I can go through that chain with less consequence. But I think when you recognize that your brain is just playing a program or running through a habit chain.

Speaker 2: 47:59

When the time reveals itself or when you have more free time, you can say how do I break this chain? How do I look at this stuff in a different way, how do I respond differently so that I don't just play this mindless program? Rather, I think about it differently and maybe you still draw the same conclusion, but the emotional response is different. Because this may happen. This may happen, but it hasn't changed my life at all yet. And when it does then I'll deal with it, but until then it's not affecting me.

Speaker 2: 48:31

Let's keep on living and maybe if that's your new program that you run, then you don't have to start, you don't have to keep hiding that chain. You can change that chain to where it can still function inside of your life, to where you don't feel like you have to like disconnect yourself completely, but you can just deal with it in a more positive or more fruitful way yeah, I think for me, part of my part of my uh, way I have not been anchored is, like I said, I've fallen off of my reading, I think it's.

Speaker 1: 49:14

But I think it's super important that I'm reading the Bible in particular because it helps me to see how, like all of the, the bigness, that's the way it works All of the bigness, all the big feelings that I have, or how monumental these experiences have or these headlines feel in comparison to God, is like he can handle this like that. Or even if he chooses not to that there is, there's reasons for it. Like there's some growth that needs to happen or there's some, I don't know. There's just something like I trust and believe God enough to know that he loves me and he's taking care of me, even when turmoil or things feel like turmoil, like I'll think well, the word says all things work together for the good of those that love the Lord and are called according to his purpose. And if I believe that I'm called to purpose and I know that I love God, then good, bad, ugly and everything in between, there's some good coming out of it. That helps me to remain hopeful, like I rely heavily on my faith, especially right now, when things just seem so, so out of control or out of my control, and so I lean heavily on faith to say, okay, all right, I don't get this. But, god, I know you understand and I know you see everything, you see the finish line. So just help me to be faithful and help me to be anchored in you. Let me help to focus on you and not get so distracted.

Speaker 1: 50:53

Remember, we talked about distractions. Help me not to get so distracted by all of these other things going on, because the fact remains is there's still a mission. There's a mission that God puts us on. There's a mission, you know, at our job, where we're supposed to do whatever the mission is for the job that we have. Um, we may have a mission within our family and um, within our relationships, like what is the mission and focus on the mission, and that helps to melt away some of the distractions and some of the just stuff that's going on in the world. That actually has not impacted like personally, but it feels real close. So, um, that's another anchor for me. Faith is an anchor for me. So, um, which you ain't been picking up, that I have not been doing, and I recognize it.

Speaker 1: 51:50

I'm like what is wrong with you? Like why are you like, why, why do you realize this is important? Yet you still haven't done it. I'm still trying to figure this stuff out about myself, but I recognize that it isn't a thing, an issue. I need to figure it out, but I recognize that it is an issue. So, again, there's a truth, right. So we talked about, we talked about a few anchors, trying to summarize all of this stuff. So we've talked about, um, like our own accountability, Like what is? How do you, how would? What's the word you would use?

Speaker 2: 52:23

I thought you want to say truth.

Speaker 1: 52:25

Well, there's truth, but you talked about something even before truth. Oh, awareness. Yeah, maybe it's awareness, so awareness. So let's start with truth. Truth, there's awareness. We've talked about habits or routines, rituals, whatever you want to call it.

Speaker 2: 52:40

Rituals sound so weird? It does sound weird, but we'll say habits.

Speaker 1: 52:44

We'll say routines, routines. Routines are made of habits, so we'll say routines. We have said I feel like there was one other and I know faith, so at least four, at least four that we've talked about Truth, awareness, routines and faith are our anchors that we use to try to keep us okay.

Speaker 2: 53:10

Yes, yes.

Speaker 1: 53:13

So I would love to hear from you all, like are there any things that we did not talk about, that you do to try to keep yourself okay in the middle of changing circumstances, whether they're good or bad circumstances? Want to hear about that, and also any thoughts that you have on our thoughts. We are open to those as well. Am.

Speaker 2: 53:33

I crazy y'all, cause she tried to make me feel like I'm crazy. I don't think I'm crazy at all.

Speaker 1: 53:37

It's just a very different way of thinking, but I don't think it's a wrong way of thinking, I just think it's the best way.

Speaker 2: 53:48

Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1: 53:49

I think that we just for some reason we've moved away I think that's a older school thought and we've it's kind of here it is. You're kind of like Old Testament.

Speaker 2: 54:02

Wow Okay.

Speaker 1: 54:06

Like there's rules and there's structure and there's consequences if you don't follow the rules and the structure. And then there's New Testament. It's more like I get all that, but there's love and there's compassion, but both of them tell this whole story, so it's not.

Speaker 2: 54:32

I think there's a purpose for both. I need to think about that. I don't know how I feel about being old testament.

Speaker 1: 54:34

Love and forgiveness. Do those words resonate with you meanwhile? Yes, love and forgiveness like this is what instruction laws commands.

Speaker 2: 54:49

Rain, fire from heaven.

Speaker 1: 54:52

Yeah, but it's like that's kind of how I see it. But the New Testament does not negate.

Speaker 2: 55:01

That why you made that wardrobe choice. You're covered in the blood over there.

Speaker 1: 55:05

No, it was really like Valentine's Day.

Speaker 2: 55:08

I didn't know how deep this went.

Speaker 1: 55:10

No, it doesn't. But I mean, if you're going to say that, maybe I'll tell other people if they ask it, Because I'm covered by the blood. Covered by the blood. No, but I really think that. What is it? Even New Testament Jesus says he didn't come to, he came to fulfill the law. He said he didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. And so it doesn't mean that the old way of doing things is wrong, it's just, it's a heavy lift.

Speaker 2: 55:41

It's a heavy lift In fact, some would say the Old Testament is closer to perfection.

Speaker 1: 55:47

Except for Jesus, it is perfection. So there's that we're closer to the garden, but I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful, thank God, for Jesus, because otherwise, like we would be still like getting smote.

Speaker 2: 56:00

Smote, smote.

Speaker 1: 56:01

Smitten no, not smitten Smoted for everything that we have done. That was wrong, um, but there is now opportunity for forgiveness and for for to experience that side of god's love, because other side is also love, because discipline is a way of love, because if you, if you don't discipline your children right, that's what it says if you don't discipline your children like how, you're not loving them. You need to give them boundaries and structures so that they can be able to function as adults, and when you lack those things, they kind of fall apart as adults. We see this play out in real time let me tell you you're doing a horrible job of wrapping us up.

Speaker 2: 56:42

I am okay. No, so funny, funny. I was was editing last week's or the last episode and there's like a section where it's like we're closing and it was like oh wait, no, we're not. Anyways, go ahead.

Speaker 1: 56:55

I'm done. Thank you for joining us for Conversations at the Well. Please, like, subscribe, share our podcast and we would love to hear from you. So join us next time for Conversations at the Well.